technically Vegeta should always been stronger than Goku

[Zenkaiboost Kekkei Genkai]

Vegeta is 5-6 year older than Goku, when Goku was merely an infant Vegeta was already training with Saibaimen and utilizing advanced ki combat , let that sink in

the idea that Goku forever surpassed Vegeta off one session of gravity training is completely ridiculous , Vegeta has too much of a head start, kid Vegeta is already more powerful than anyone in the DB saga at the time kid Goku was merely fooling around with that stick

there's no way in blue hell Goku should ever surpass Vegeta because the head start gab between them and their power levels is just too big , never mind that Vegetaa's power level at birth is already infinitely bigger than Goku's

Goku reaching the gab between them and surpassing Vegeta off one gravity training session is the most ridiculous protagonist privilege writing in anime manga , this is like kid Naruto surpassing teenage Sasuke in a matter of 3 months, absolute nonsense bruh

[󠀡󠀡]

Vegeta gets hoe'd so hard in DBS, they even made bro's wife get slapped by Beerus.

imo, I think Vegeta might of undergone the most intense training regimens out of any other character, mainly just so he can match and surpass Goku's level, but he really gets screwed over way more times than he should in terms of surpassing his level.

I like Goku & Vegeta equally, so I really don't care if they decide to keep Goku at always being the strongest, but there really is a bias and everyone knows that.

A lot of us knew about this bias when Gohan got curbed during the Buu saga when there was so much focus on his character, and then Goku completely took over his presence afterwards

DBS is just written poorly, they made the base Super Saiyan God a complete waste of a transformation since God Blue came shortly after, and the new characters were just painfully boring. Hit was the only interesting character. Everyone also knows the artstyle took a nosedive in quality. This is why I recommend everyone to NOT start at DBS

[Zenkaiboost Kekkei Genkai]

i know all the kiddies love Super because they didn't grow up with Z, they don't grasp the magnitude of the events of Z , like Goku turning into the first super Saiyan and defeating Freeza, they don't know how epic that was because Super has bombarded them with ridiculous power levels and transformations from the start

Super is just some low budget low effort garbage , worse than GT ever was

[󠀡󠀡]

Originally posted by Legendrake:

i know all the kiddies love Super because they didn't grow up with Z, they don't grasp the magnitude of the events of Z , like Goku turning into the first super Saiyan and defeating Freeza, they don't know how epic that was because Super has bombarded them with ridiculous power levels and transformations from the start

Super is just some low budget low effort garbage , worse than GT ever was

GT just felt like nonstop filler until they reached SSJ4 state. It's painful how they made it so boring, and characters like Vegeta & the Z fighters had no meaningful presence at all until near the end and the anime.

Uub/Majuub could of been a huge saving grace of a character for the anime as well, but he lost all of his fights pretty much, it was just a waste of everyone's time

[SpenserAtlas]

Originally posted by Legendrake:

no dude, Super doesn't exist in the Z universe sorry, i know you don't want to hear it because you love blue hair Goku , but there's never any mention of gods of destruction in Z, King Kai never mentions them , and Vegeta never mentions the existence of a purple egyptian rabbit god showing up to King Vegeta and flexing on him

stop the copium, the existence of Super makes no sense

Yeah and we never heard of Kid Buu until it happened, quit coping and accept it dude, either they were saving up the Gods of Destruction arc for a future or they came up with the idea and wanted to execute it 10 years later, the existence of Super is also consistent because it justifies the existence of Uub and the Grand Kaioshin, and these arcs are all amazing, they broke the internet LITERALLY, they crashed websites, they had nations fighting because they were recording it on big screens, they have DBS based food, trucks, commercials, DBS is BEAUTIFUL, sure, not as beautiful compared to DBZ, but it's amazing, so stay mad buddy.

[*-_SpHinX_-*]

Simply the difference in their mindsets as warriors, vegeta practically admits that back in boo saga, has worked on improving it and now stays a lot closer to goku in general even surpassing him multiple times.

[Luwae]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Vegeta gets hoe'd so hard in DBS, they even made bro's wife get slapped by Beerus.

imo, I think Vegeta might of undergone the most intense training regimens out of any other character, mainly just so he can match and surpass Goku's level, but he really gets screwed over way more times than he should in terms of surpassing his level.

I like Goku & Vegeta equally, so I really don't care if they decide to keep Goku at always being the strongest, but there really is a bias and everyone knows that.

A lot of us knew about this bias when Gohan got curbed during the Buu saga when there was so much focus on his character, and then Goku completely took over his presence afterwards

DBS is just written poorly, they made the base Super Saiyan God a complete waste of a transformation since God Blue came shortly after, and the new characters were just painfully boring. Hit was the only interesting character. Everyone also knows the artstyle took a nosedive in quality. This is why I recommend everyone to NOT start at DBS

DBS is actually well written, but the manga is. The artstyle is the same than DB manga too. The scenario is really different from the anime, same goes for Z anyway, and make way more sense. Z anime was trash too, compared to the manga. The only good point is to have the fights animated, but that's all.

As for the super Saiyan god form, they use it a lot more in the manga than they do in the anime, because it uses a lot less energy than blue.

Originally posted by Legendrake:

i know all the kiddies love Super because they didn't grow up with Z, they don't grasp the magnitude of the events of Z , like Goku turning into the first super Saiyan and defeating Freeza, they don't know how epic that was because Super has bombarded them with ridiculous power levels and transformations from the start

Super is just some low budget low effort garbage , worse than GT ever was

I grew up with dragon ball, read it, saw it, play every game. If you swear only by Z, you definitely didn't read the paper version of it, nor super. First of all, it's way better in the paper version, second of all, super has the same quality than Z, paper version. Anime version is trash, so is Z anime version. Every game does a better job at it than the anime does.

Then, you say a lot of things about Z and all. But considering what you're saying, you actually don't know much about it at all. And no, super wasn't made just to sell new merchandising, that's GT, which was made only by toei animation, without any participation from Toriyama, just to get more money.

Super was made by Toriyama, he was the one writting it all and supervising all the drawings. Anime still did what it usually does, added complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and changed event from what Toriyama did, but the paper version is as great as Dragon Ball was. He just wanted to say more stuff, make the characters evolve more, and expand his universe. He was the author, and you're a nobody to decide that it's not related to Z. If the author decide that this is the follow up from Z, it is and you gotta know your place.

[charlyss]

we did not need to see vegeta looking weak crying in front of frieza. that gave me ptsd as a little boy. There was a big power gap from vegeta to goku, even after king kai trained him. vegeta had 3-4 near death experience and 1 death on namak while goku lost one near death fight to ginyu and some how he was the first to unlock ssj. Now thats just some bullshiii story writing to keep the main character going...

[Ɲøƈ]

Originally posted by charlyss:

we did not need to see vegeta looking weak crying in front of frieza. that gave me ptsd as a little boy. There was a big power gap from vegeta to goku, even after king kai trained him. vegeta had 3-4 near death experience and 1 death on namak while goku lost one near death fight to ginyu and some how he was the first to unlock ssj. Now thats just some bullshiii story writing to keep the main character going...

Yet, Vegeta didn't care about anyone else, thus didn't have an emotional trigger such as losing his best friend to bring about the transformation, or else he probably would have.

[SquidMann]

Idk about any of that, but Vegeta is 3-0 against Goku

[charlyss]

Originally posted by Ɲøƈ:

Originally posted by charlyss:

we did not need to see vegeta looking weak crying in front of frieza. that gave me ptsd as a little boy. There was a big power gap from vegeta to goku, even after king kai trained him. vegeta had 3-4 near death experience and 1 death on namak while goku lost one near death fight to ginyu and some how he was the first to unlock ssj. Now thats just some bullshiii story writing to keep the main character going...

Yet, Vegeta didn't care about anyone else, thus didn't have an emotional trigger such as losing his best friend to bring about the transformation, or else he probably would have.

Nah stop the cap. If anything vegeta should of already have ssj by the time he pulled up to earth. there is a 5-10 year age gap where he was just killing and destroying shid. Vegeta looking weak should of never been a thing. Goku is emotional… so he unlocked Ssj. Tell me that not bs writing. In the midst of battle Goku has extra time to be emotional.that’s weak writing plus he lacks battle experience compared to vegeta. It still doesn’t makes sense how Goku ever surpass or unlock ssj before vegeta. When Goku is emotionally weak. At the time it was cool to watch yeah but overall it doesn’t make sense to why vegeta is being held back sooo much.

[MyWifeLeftMe83]

The ENTIRE series goes out of its way to explain why Goku is generally the better fighter and consistently ahead of Vegeta.

1. Since OG Dragon Ball, Goku was taught the best possible mindset for training by Roshi. “Eat well, sleep well, play well, train well.”
He’s taught to keep himself healthy and fueled, well rested so that his body can build strength after training, HAVE FUN during this process, and work smart AND hard during training. Combining this with his SINGULAR plot power for learning techniques rapidly and you have one of the greatest warriors ever.

2. Goku is open minded whereas Vegeta is as stubborn as a rock.
Goku was able to put his disposition with Piccolo aside in order to work together and take down Raditz to save his son.
Vegeta ONLY works with Krillin and Gohan instead of killing them because the Ginyu Force will take the remaining Dragon Balls and kill them + he knows they have techniques and strategies that shouldn’t be underestimated (in other words: he took a fat L on earth and teaming up with his former ops not only gives him a much needed advantage but they can be used as body shields for catharsis).
Goku actually trains with his son in the time chamber and gets optimal results in less than a year whereas Trunks implies that Vegeta didn’t even interact with him because he’s too disappointed in him (and himself)
for his failures as a Saiyan warrior.
This creates a continuous roadblock where, even after going in the time chamber for ANOTHER YEAR, he still can’t master SSJ and take on Perfect Cell (this is because training is far more effective with a partner than by yourself).

3. Vegeta’s “head start” means NOTHING since he was never allowed to train under Frieza’s reign. His power level of 18,000 was all the power he was allowed to have, if it was higher, that means he got a zenkai boost from an ass beating and he would never want to have to explain that to his tormentors.
This created a stagnant mindset in Vegeta’s way of life where he paraded his own strength to those weaker than him and ignorant of Frieza. He gets humiliated (not defeated) by Goku in their first fight and takes a fat L from Krillin, Gohan, and Yajirobe working together while he’s weakened.

Since you don’t consider DBS to be relevant (a very “Vegeta” way of approaching a discussion), I opted to use every series that would be relevant by your standards: OG DB for Goku’s case and the whole of Z to explain Vegeta’s short-comings.

[MyWifeLeftMe83]

Actually, this YouTube short explains it better than I ever could: https://youtube.com/shorts/0C_-NLx7nts?si=Iext0QBtvMfysXDc

[charlyss]

Originally posted by MyWifeLeftMe83:

The ENTIRE series goes out of its way to explain why Goku is generally the better fighter and consistently ahead of Vegeta.

1. Since OG Dragon Ball, Goku was taught the best possible mindset for training by Roshi. “Eat well, sleep well, play well, train well.”
He’s taught to keep himself healthy and fueled, well rested so that his body can build strength after training, HAVE FUN during this process, and work smart AND hard during training. Combining this with his SINGULAR plot power for learning techniques rapidly and you have one of the greatest warriors ever.

2. Goku is open minded whereas Vegeta is as stubborn as a rock.
Goku was able to put his disposition with Piccolo aside in order to work together and take down Raditz to save his son.
Vegeta ONLY works with Krillin and Gohan instead of killing them because the Ginyu Force will take the remaining Dragon Balls and kill them + he knows they have techniques and strategies that shouldn’t be underestimated (in other words: he took a fat L on earth and teaming up with his former ops not only gives him a much needed advantage but they can be used as body shields for catharsis).
Goku actually trains with his son in the time chamber and gets optimal results in less than a year whereas Trunks implies that Vegeta didn’t even interact with him because he’s too disappointed in him (and himself)
for his failures as a Saiyan warrior.
This creates a continuous roadblock where, even after going in the time chamber for ANOTHER YEAR, he still can’t master SSJ and take on Perfect Cell (this is because training is far more effective with a partner than by yourself).

3. Vegeta’s “head start” means NOTHING since he was never allowed to train under Frieza’s reign. His power level of 18,000 was all the power he was allowed to have, if it was higher, that means he got a zenkai boost from an ass beating and he would never want to have to explain that to his tormentors.
This created a stagnant mindset in Vegeta’s way of life where he paraded his own strength to those weaker than him and ignorant of Frieza. He gets humiliated (not defeated) by Goku in their first fight and takes a fat L from Krillin, Gohan, and Yajirobe working together while he’s weakened.

Since you don’t consider DBS to be relevant (a very “Vegeta” way of approaching a discussion), I opted to use every series that would be relevant by your standards: OG DB for Goku’s case and the whole of Z to explain Vegeta’s short-comings.

That was too much writing just to be wrong. Vegeta beat the dog mess out of Goku on earth. Goku was too weak even with 20x Kaioken. Vegeta was way stronger then Goku And the rest of the z fighters. They hate vegeta so much that they made piccolo stronger then him at one point. Like cmon now… I like DBZ but they messed up when it comes to vegeta.

[ramayo]

I love how people these days argue as if they were 10 y/o about a character that's pretty much not going to change. What do you win from this? Catharsis?
Toriyama is gone, sadly, and even if he was still here nobody would change Vegeta. At this point y'all are using Steam discussions as a therapist of sorts with all the people that come and say "bro, this shi is dumb as hell"

[BeastKingSmash]

Originally posted by MyWifeLeftMe83:

The ENTIRE series goes out of its way to explain why Goku is generally the better fighter and consistently ahead of Vegeta.

1. Since OG Dragon Ball, Goku was taught the best possible mindset for training by Roshi. “Eat well, sleep well, play well, train well.”
He’s taught to keep himself healthy and fueled, well rested so that his body can build strength after training, HAVE FUN during this process, and work smart AND hard during training. Combining this with his SINGULAR plot power for learning techniques rapidly and you have one of the greatest warriors ever.

2. Goku is open minded whereas Vegeta is as stubborn as a rock.
Goku was able to put his disposition with Piccolo aside in order to work together and take down Raditz to save his son.
Vegeta ONLY works with Krillin and Gohan instead of killing them because the Ginyu Force will take the remaining Dragon Balls and kill them + he knows they have techniques and strategies that shouldn’t be underestimated (in other words: he took a fat L on earth and teaming up with his former ops not only gives him a much needed advantage but they can be used as body shields for catharsis).
Goku actually trains with his son in the time chamber and gets optimal results in less than a year whereas Trunks implies that Vegeta didn’t even interact with him because he’s too disappointed in him (and himself)
for his failures as a Saiyan warrior.
This creates a continuous roadblock where, even after going in the time chamber for ANOTHER YEAR, he still can’t master SSJ and take on Perfect Cell (this is because training is far more effective with a partner than by yourself).

3. Vegeta’s “head start” means NOTHING since he was never allowed to train under Frieza’s reign. His power level of 18,000 was all the power he was allowed to have, if it was higher, that means he got a zenkai boost from an ass beating and he would never want to have to explain that to his tormentors.
This created a stagnant mindset in Vegeta’s way of life where he paraded his own strength to those weaker than him and ignorant of Frieza. He gets humiliated (not defeated) by Goku in their first fight and takes a fat L from Krillin, Gohan, and Yajirobe working together while he’s weakened.

Since you don’t consider DBS to be relevant (a very “Vegeta” way of approaching a discussion), I opted to use every series that would be relevant by your standards: OG DB for Goku’s case and the whole of Z to explain Vegeta’s short-comings.

what a bunch of nonsense