The famous "Skill issue" France tournament final

[Baillail]

https://www.youtube.com/live/CFaGKXrlw48?si=goS3ny9aSC54Djqs&t=22422

A stong message to the dev lol
PS: I love the game, and I'm grateful to finally have it after so many years of waiting (as an old Tenkaichi 3 fan). However, I'm not blind to its flaws. I hope the patch will be good enough to address them.

Sorry in advance but english isn't my first language

[kenshireando]

Originally posted by Bulbasaur:

Originally posted by kenshireando:

Emmm, that it's trolling... so, yeah, like i said, that doesn't prove anything. If someone was using that strategy trying to win and the win, THAT would prove it that the strategy it's broken

no, the player was told not to do that anymore, even if it was or wasnt a winning strategy; they were showing how bad the game was, i dont know how else you can see it. Its not simple trolling etc.

That's exactly trolling

[kenshireando]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by kenshireando:

They were trolling; run all the match isn't a very good strategy, try it if you want online and tell us how it goes. Run it's good for certain situations, but not all the time

trolling or not, they demonstrated that THAT is how you play the game if you want to win. those frenchies were doing god's work :)

No, they don't demonstrated anything. If you and your opponent agree to play to some specific way that doesn't prove anything. Like i said already many times; if one player win using that strategy against someone that was playing seriously, then that would prove that run away it's a powerful strategy. Both players were trolling, so it doesn't really prove that that strategy it's very powerful; previous fights demonstrate more of the state of the game than the finals itself

[kenshireando]

Originally posted by Baillail:

As expected, debating with kenshireando = massive headache

There is an interview available on YouTube with the two players in question (unfortunately in French, sorry for non-French speakers), where they explain that even in the unofficial random tournaments held previously for the game (before the BANDAI one), cyborgs are banned by default.
They also highlight the OP aspect of trunks and other trunks-like characters who can prevent the vanish war.

Here is the link for those who are interested. I haven’t checked the entire video yet, only the part I mentioned.
=> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWu1qWZ6S7M

There are a lot of tournaments online, i actually played recently one in which androids werent banned, the bans were at choice of each player, but that doesn't mean any in particular, anyone does his tournaments which the rules that they think are better.
Anyway, nobody it's saying that androids aren't powerful in DP battles, but this match in particular isn't a real match. The previous matches already show why androids are powerful with real situations; the final it's just trolling

[Bulbasaur]

Originally posted by kenshireando:

Originally posted by Baillail:

As expected, debating with kenshireando = massive headache

There is an interview available on YouTube with the two players in question (unfortunately in French, sorry for non-French speakers), where they explain that even in the unofficial random tournaments held previously for the game (before the BANDAI one), cyborgs are banned by default.
They also highlight the OP aspect of trunks and other trunks-like characters who can prevent the vanish war.

Here is the link for those who are interested. I haven’t checked the entire video yet, only the part I mentioned.
=> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWu1qWZ6S7M

There are a lot of tournaments online, i actually played recently one in which androids werent banned, the bans were at choice of each player, but that doesn't mean any in particular, anyone does his tournaments which the rules that they think are better.
Anyway, nobody it's saying that androids aren't powerful in DP battles, but this match in particular isn't a real match. The previous matches already show why androids are powerful with real situations; the final it's just trolling

Bandai just made a bad product, did not effecitely test their characters in a way for spam (SPAM is a common term in fighting games) and from the makers of BT3, and many more fighting games id expect them to know this

There is not enough testing of this game for them to push this tournament out. Players will say its not competitive as a game and thats fine to believe that. However, the publisher/developer is showing you otherwise by having a ranked mode and a yearly tournament being hosted.

[Tensar]

Just block him it's impossible to talk with him he will never accept the truth. Typical old guy.
They were not trolling

[kenshireando]

Originally posted by Tensar:

Just block him it's impossible to talk with him he will never accept the truth. Typical old guy.
They were not trolling

They were trolling, the players themselves stated it

[kenshireando]

Originally posted by Bulbasaur:

Originally posted by kenshireando:

There are a lot of tournaments online, i actually played recently one in which androids werent banned, the bans were at choice of each player, but that doesn't mean any in particular, anyone does his tournaments which the rules that they think are better.
Anyway, nobody it's saying that androids aren't powerful in DP battles, but this match in particular isn't a real match. The previous matches already show why androids are powerful with real situations; the final it's just trolling

Bandai just made a bad product, did not effecitely test their characters in a way for spam (SPAM is a common term in fighting games) and from the makers of BT3, and many more fighting games id expect them to know this

There is not enough testing of this game for them to push this tournament out. Players will say its not competitive as a game and thats fine to believe that. However, the publisher/developer is showing you otherwise by having a ranked mode and a yearly tournament being hosted.

You would be amazed in how many fgs spamming it's a solid strategy, most of the time it's a strategy that work in noobs and casual players, which it's similar at what happens with this game, that its filled with many casuals that never played other fighting games...

[Wipkonijntje]

fighting games don't have casuals, they all leave the first week or 2 and only the pros stay playing it.

just look at SF6 and tekken 8.

in both games u letterly fight the same 3-5 ppl every day all over again cuase theres no one left.
if i look at SF6 streamers that rn't in japan they don't even find 5 different opponents anymore.

also in both these games spamming offencively is now also the meta.
theres some skill to the games but its highly overthrew by button mashing causze its just more effective then beeing a "fighting game specialist with 7 PHD's in frame trapping" like the tekken pros claim.

[Baillail]

The two French finalist players were disqualified from the tournament. They did not break any rules, whereas some people literally cheated by using capsules during it.
This story disgusts me personally; I want to get a refund for the game.

Source: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2024/nov/29/finalists-sparking-zero-disqualified-tournament/#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20morning%2C%20it%20was,violated%20the%20Code%20of%20Conduct.%22

[Joker]

Originally posted by Baillail:

The two French finalist players were disqualified from the tournament. They did not break any rules, whereas some people literally cheated by using capsules during it.
This story disgusts me personally; I want to get a refund for the game.

Source: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2024/nov/29/finalists-sparking-zero-disqualified-tournament/#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20morning%2C%20it%20was,violated%20the%20Code%20of%20Conduct.%22

imagine getting banned for playing the game using meta strategies wtf

[Baillail]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by Baillail:

The two French finalist players were disqualified from the tournament. They did not break any rules, whereas some people literally cheated by using capsules during it.
This story disgusts me personally; I want to get a refund for the game.

Source: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2024/nov/29/finalists-sparking-zero-disqualified-tournament/#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20morning%2C%20it%20was,violated%20the%20Code%20of%20Conduct.%22

imagine getting banned for playing the game using meta strategies wtf

Ye really, they are shameless..

I'm not familiar with this kind of procedure, but would it be possible to organize a community action for a boycott? I'd like to get a refund for the game and I think it would be great if those who can or feel concerned do the same. It would be good to do something massive.

Because right now, for me, it feels like spitting in the face of the people who support the game, and I’m fed up with being spat on by companies that just want to make money regardless of any morals.

And I’ll say it again: I love Tenkaichi 3, I love Sparking Zero, and I can appreciate the work that went into it. I can understand that the game wasn’t perfect at launch—this is the era we live in, all games require post-launch patches now, that’s the norm, we’re no longer in the 2000s.

But what they've just done is unjustifiable, and I’m tired of being treated like a cash cow. I’ve bought a lot of Bandai Namco games, but this is the last straw. They have no morals and don’t even respect the rules they set themselves. It's disgusting, I'm disgusted.

[Joker]

Originally posted by Baillail:

Originally posted by Joker:

imagine getting banned for playing the game using meta strategies wtf

Ye really, they are shameless..

I'm not familiar with this kind of procedure, but would it be possible to organize a community action for a boycott? I'd like to get a refund for the game and I think it would be great if those who can or feel concerned do the same. It would be good to do something massive.

Because right now, for me, it feels like spitting in the face of the people who support the game, and I’m fed up with being spat on by companies that just want to make money regardless of any morals.

And I’ll say it again: I love Tenkaichi 3, I love Sparking Zero, and I can appreciate the work that went into it. I can understand that the game wasn’t perfect at launch—this is the era we live in, all games require post-launch patches now, that’s the norm, we’re no longer in the 2000s.

But what they've just done is unjustifiable, and I’m tired of being treated like a cash cow. I’ve bought a lot of Bandai Namco games, but this is the last straw. They have no morals and don’t even respect the rules they set themselves. It's disgusting, I'm disgusted.

only way refund would work is if the game doesnt work/is unplayable. you can try to argue your case @ steam support about the communication errors and talk about how it affects your ability to play too (cant play if everybody you play ends up being disconnected from the game). even better if youre the one suffering from the disconnect.

[Buster]

Originally posted by Baillail:

Originally posted by Joker:

imagine getting banned for playing the game using meta strategies wtf

Ye really, they are shameless..

I'm not familiar with this kind of procedure, but would it be possible to organize a community action for a boycott? I'd like to get a refund for the game and I think it would be great if those who can or feel concerned do the same. It would be good to do something massive.

Because right now, for me, it feels like spitting in the face of the people who support the game, and I’m fed up with being spat on by companies that just want to make money regardless of any morals.

And I’ll say it again: I love Tenkaichi 3, I love Sparking Zero, and I can appreciate the work that went into it. I can understand that the game wasn’t perfect at launch—this is the era we live in, all games require post-launch patches now, that’s the norm, we’re no longer in the 2000s.

But what they've just done is unjustifiable, and I’m tired of being treated like a cash cow. I’ve bought a lot of Bandai Namco games, but this is the last straw. They have no morals and don’t even respect the rules they set themselves. It's disgusting, I'm disgusted.

Would it shock you to know that a Balanced ONLINE BT game was made just 2 years after BT3? Called Raging Blast? That NAMCO refused to pay Atari for the Naming rights in the west, just like they did with Sparking Zero for Budokai Tenkaichi trademark?

That Sparking Zero tossed all the work the OLD SPIKE team did to Balance BT for online play out the window from 2 iterations of BT games or 4 more years of work? Raging Blast 1 and 2 were really well balanced considering what they were working from. They never were able to fully get rid of charge cancel infinites that plauged the series from the very first game, but they did get rid of 98% of them....

Know how Sparking Zero got rid of Charge Cancel Infinites? They removed charge canceling, THE core mechanic of the BT series, making Sparking Zero not a BT game at all.
They did not want to go through the absolute heck of trying to balance a mechanic that the spike team took 5 whole games to mostly finally balance, because lazy even if that mechanic is the SOUL of the game.

Know what else? BT3 players were the entire reason Namco Dropped the BT series entirely? You people flamed RB2 for no good reason, despite it doing everything mostly right, but you flamed the developers on the namco RB forums enough they took out Armor break and DUMBED down the custom system for you BT3 players before it was launched, which ruined the games competitive Scene.

Because of that most people just went back to RB1 for online play due to no AB and the inferior customs of RB2, it was a ghost town thanks to you BT3 players, and got the series canceled completely due to lack of play, ending in a 14 year drought till we got this game.

So yes BT3 Players were the direct cause of the entire BT series getting canceled.
Very sad.

Almost all of this is lost to time. Except for the people that actually played RB1\2 online most people don't seem to know any of this. It is all before youtube "infulencers".... Technically youtube did exist, but it wasn't used back then the way ti is today and there is little record of any of this. The Namco RB forums no longer exist either.

[kenshireando]

Originally posted by Baillail:

The two French finalist players were disqualified from the tournament. They did not break any rules, whereas some people literally cheated by using capsules during it.
This story disgusts me personally; I want to get a refund for the game.

Source: https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2024/nov/29/finalists-sparking-zero-disqualified-tournament/#:~:text=Earlier%20this%20morning%2C%20it%20was,violated%20the%20Code%20of%20Conduct.%22

I think they were banned for bad sportsmanship, not for any rule in particular. Fixing a match because the opponent it's your friend isn't a good sportsmanship

[Baillail]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by Baillail:

Ye really, they are shameless..

I'm not familiar with this kind of procedure, but would it be possible to organize a community action for a boycott? I'd like to get a refund for the game and I think it would be great if those who can or feel concerned do the same. It would be good to do something massive.

Because right now, for me, it feels like spitting in the face of the people who support the game, and I’m fed up with being spat on by companies that just want to make money regardless of any morals.

And I’ll say it again: I love Tenkaichi 3, I love Sparking Zero, and I can appreciate the work that went into it. I can understand that the game wasn’t perfect at launch—this is the era we live in, all games require post-launch patches now, that’s the norm, we’re no longer in the 2000s.

But what they've just done is unjustifiable, and I’m tired of being treated like a cash cow. I’ve bought a lot of Bandai Namco games, but this is the last straw. They have no morals and don’t even respect the rules they set themselves. It's disgusting, I'm disgusted.

only way refund would work is if the game doesnt work/is unplayable. you can try to argue your case @ steam support about the communication errors and talk about how it affects your ability to play too (cant play if everybody you play ends up being disconnected from the game). even better if youre the one suffering from the disconnect.

I know you're right, and it's probably the only way to get reimbursed after so many hours of play. I'll think about it... I don't really know how to explain it, but if I had to choose, I'd rather do it through a class action lawsuit, not just for the disconnect issue (which affects me like everyone else, of course, but in my case it wasn't disabling to the point of not being able to play), but for all the reasons that make us feel like we're being treated like idiots and not being listened to. The injustice of this tournament affects me more than I thought. Even though I didn't like what I saw in terms of gameplay during this final, and I wish things had gone differently, I have the feeling that this is how it was meant to be.

Originally posted by Buster:

Originally posted by Baillail:

Ye really, they are shameless..

I'm not familiar with this kind of procedure, but would it be possible to organize a community action for a boycott? I'd like to get a refund for the game and I think it would be great if those who can or feel concerned do the same. It would be good to do something massive.

Because right now, for me, it feels like spitting in the face of the people who support the game, and I’m fed up with being spat on by companies that just want to make money regardless of any morals.

And I’ll say it again: I love Tenkaichi 3, I love Sparking Zero, and I can appreciate the work that went into it. I can understand that the game wasn’t perfect at launch—this is the era we live in, all games require post-launch patches now, that’s the norm, we’re no longer in the 2000s.

But what they've just done is unjustifiable, and I’m tired of being treated like a cash cow. I’ve bought a lot of Bandai Namco games, but this is the last straw. They have no morals and don’t even respect the rules they set themselves. It's disgusting, I'm disgusted.

Would it shock you to know that a Balanced ONLINE BT game was made just 2 years after BT3? Called Raging Blast? That NAMCO refused to pay Atari for the Naming rights in the west, just like they did with Sparking Zero for Budokai Tenkaichi trademark?

That Sparking Zero tossed all the work the OLD SPIKE team did to Balance BT for online play out the window from 2 iterations of BT games or 4 more years of work? Raging Blast 1 and 2 were really well balanced considering what they were working from. They never were able to fully get rid of charge cancel infinites that plauged the series from the very first game, but they did get rid of 98% of them....

Know how Sparking Zero got rid of Charge Cancel Infinites? They removed charge canceling, THE core mechanic of the BT series, making Sparking Zero not a BT game at all.
They did not want to go through the absolute heck of trying to balance a mechanic that the spike team took 5 whole games to mostly finally balance, because lazy even if that mechanic is the SOUL of the game.

Know what else? BT3 players were the entire reason Namco Dropped the BT series entirely? You people flamed RB2 for no good reason, despite it doing everything mostly right, but you flamed the developers on the namco RB forums enough they took out Armor break and DUMBED down the custom system for you BT3 players before it was launched, which ruined the games competitive Scene.

Because of that most people just went back to RB1 for online play due to no AB and the inferior customs of RB2, it was a ghost town thanks to you BT3 players, and got the series canceled completely due to lack of play, ending in a 14 year drought till we got this game.

So yes BT3 Players were the direct cause of the entire BT series getting canceled.
Very sad.

Almost all of this is lost to time. Except for the people that actually played RB1\2 online most people don't seem to know any of this. It is all before youtube "infulencers".... Technically youtube did exist, but it wasn't used back then the way ti is today and there is little record of any of this. The Namco RB forums no longer exist either.

I sense a lot of anger in you, something you haven't let go of since clearly 2009, since the first Raging Blast came out that year.
No, I wasn't aware of all this. Back then, I was a teenager who was just happy to be playing Tenkaichi 3 and didn't understand why the series took a different direction.
I played both Raging Blasts, but I didn't enjoy them as much as Tenkaichi 3.

Now, you need to take a deep breath and calm down a bit, because you're talking to me as if I were the embodiment of all the Tenkaichi 3 players from back then, and that I had chased the Raging Blast developers with a pitchfork and burned down their house, which is not the case.
Everything you're saying is very interesting and provides information I didn’t have in this story, these are details we can't ignore, but I think you're attacking the wrong person, in the wrong place, and at the wrong time.

We are just fans of a universe who are revolting because we see that universe suffering because of people trying to make money off of "idiots who still watch cartoons" (because I imagine that's all they see in us).

We’re on the same side. Instead of shooting each other down and giving them more reason to laugh, why not unite and attack where it hurts? Their wallets, because that’s the only way we’ll be heard.
That's all I'm saying, don't see any hostility in my message, quite the opposite, all I want is to have fun with a game that gave me so many good times, playing with my cousin, friends from my neighborhood, passing the controller around.

And it’s not normal to be fighting on a forum when deep down, I think we all just want to relive a similar experience to what we had, and the good moments spent, whether it’s on Raging Blast, Tenkaichi 3, or other Dragon Ball / Dragon Ball Z games.

Sorry if there are any repetitions, it's late where I am and I'm using a translator, I’m doing my best!