Marauders

Marauders

toneitdown Dec 26, 2023 @ 5:15am
Spawn camping
Hi,
So I picked the game up yesterday and I've been actually really enjoying the gameplay loop and the how exciting the raid can be when you extract full of cool loot. So far my only gripe with the game are people who camp your spawn (and I'm sure I'm just adding to the pile of complaint about this at this point but still), most of the time these are duos who just wait for your airlock to open and shoot you to death from different angles. Now, I understand that getting to any mission asap is part of the decision making but in situation like this there is really no counter play. Easy fix - let players close the Airlock from the inside, so they can get out and try different entry or just loot crates in space.
The real question is, why hasn't this been implemented yet. After 3 situations like these, I've been just doing some naked runs because I genuinely expect to get camped and I know there will be nothing I can do.
Obviously game is in EA but Idk if this has been acknowledged by devs in any way.
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Macdallan Dec 26, 2023 @ 6:11am 
You're right, this has been discussed over and over by many people and a button to close the airlock has been suggested many times. It has never been implemented and the reason may be as simple as this - combat is intended to occur in all areas of the raid and sub-raid maps including airlocks. There is risk involved and sometimes that risk is being attacked before you can leave your airlock.

Actual airlock camping isn't all that common on most maps but it happens from time to time, however most fights at airlocks happen because someone is nearby and hears your airlock begin to open so they set up for a fight. It's usually not a case of them setting up and actually camping for most of the match hoping someone is going to come out of a certain airlock.

This isn't the kind of game that has a perfect counter play to every situation, sometimes you're going to get into a bad situation and there won't be an easy way out, and maybe there will be no option other than to try to fight your way out. Airlocks aren't the only place where this can happen.

You do have options, and if what you're doing keeps leading to the same result then maybe you need to try something different. You can try to get to the raid or sub-raid first. Don't waste any time flying around, go straight for the closest map where you can dock. If you can get there first then you cannot be attacked at your airlock by other players.

If you can't get there first - get there late. Give players time to move into the map and bump into each other. Spend some time flying around, maybe collect some space salvage, then dock.

You can also hang back and watch where other players go. Get in a position where you're relatively hidden but can see at least one of the raid or sub-raid maps. Keep track of how many ships or pods go into those locations and then decide where to go based on what you've seen.

Another option is to avoid docking at main raid locations, go to locations (or ships) that you can breach with your pod if you have any in your match. The colony cruiser, mining frigate, damaged capital ship, merchant ship, and the three AI ships (scout, interceptor, strike frigate) can all be breached by pods so if they're in your match try those instead of docking somewhere.

You could give Raider mode a try - you can swap modes by clicking the bar next to the start match button. Raider has a cooldown but it's a solo mode with an 8 player cap that starts you in the map, no ships, and ends when you use a pod - so no need to fly to an exit. You go in with no gear, this mode gives you a bit of random low tier gear to use.

You can try to breach player ships with your pod and PVP players on their ships. You can try to engage in ship to ship combat instead of going into the raid maps. Maybe you'll be breached and be able to fend off the attacker.

Hope some of this helps. :)
Last edited by Macdallan; Dec 26, 2023 @ 6:19am
toneitdown Dec 26, 2023 @ 7:27am 
Originally posted by Macdallan:
You're right, this has been discussed over and over by many people and a button to close the airlock has been suggested many times. It has never been implemented and the reason may be as simple as this - combat is intended to occur in all areas of the raid and sub-raid maps including airlocks. There is risk involved and sometimes that risk is being attacked before you can leave your airlock.

...

Hope some of this helps. :)

Thanks for the response. I definitely appreciate how game offers different ways of approaching the raid. While I agree combat should occur in all areas, because it makes sense that players would like to take advantage of their map knowledge and speed, i think taking away the decision from the ambushed player to commit/prepare for the fight or retreat from it doesn't add any value to the game. It also makes no logical sense why would someone not be able to close the entrance to the ship from inside the ship. I genuinely think this is an oversight and don't want to believe its a core part of the developers vision for this game's combat.

Now, in a scenario where as soon as the door open the team is prepared and they straight up one shot a player entering a raid, no time for reaction, he played solo,he took the risk, he got destroyed - I guess I could side with that. Game should still reward a strategic thinking and cooperation between a team. But if some 2 dudes camp me with a shield and shotgun, I'm stuck behind a cover, can't do anything, and it still takes them 30+ seconds to kill me - that's just stupid. With how often you encounter npcs or other players in this game, they are extremely lucky there is no 3rd party, especially early on. In this case, a poorly executed ambush should be punished, not someone who just entered a mission with their fresh gear.

I don't want to make it seem like it's just my rumbling and venting. I finally enjoy an FPS game and it feels good to play even if I suck compared to other players. This is really my only problem. I don't know if the same issues are common in Tarkov or Hunt or whatever, and even if they are, making a new IP should not revolve around something more than just copying a formula and all the mistakes and changing the coat of paint. There has been enough examples in the industry where developers can't distinguish between challenging and unfair/annoying and their player base tanks. I hope they will try to resolve this issue somehow before 1.0, would be a shame if they didn't.
Last edited by toneitdown; Dec 26, 2023 @ 8:47am
Macdallan Dec 26, 2023 @ 2:31pm 
Originally posted by toneitdown:
i think taking away the decision from the ambushed player to commit/prepare for the fight or retreat from it doesn't add any value to the game.

Players can be ambushed anywhere and there are far worse places than being attacked while still in your airlock where you at least have some cover and you know which direction the attacks will come from. There are plenty of places where you can get pinned down other than at your airlock with no chance to retreat and no choice whether or not to commit to the fight, too. Vaults. Depots. Any room or area with only one way out. Any room with a few doors but with a layout where one enemy can set up in a spot to prevent you from safely exiting the room. Rooms with only a few ways out that are all being covered by enemy players. You can also be pinned between multiple teams, or a group of players and some bots, and have nowhere to go. You often have to fight your way out of situations. It's just part of the game and whether it happens at a breach point, an airlock, in a corridor, in a hallway, a large open area that happens to only have one stairway leading out, or somewhere else really doesn't matter.

You can also run into "campers" anywhere and it's actually more likely to encounter actual campers in places other than airlocks. Sometimes players just pick a sneaky hiding spot and wait. Sometimes you have nowhere to go, sometimes you don't get to decide or prepare for fights, sometimes you don't get to choose whether or not to commit to a fight and this does not only occur at airlocks when you are entering the raid map for the first time. This does add value to the game because this game is all about risk/reward. Every choice carries risk, and choosing to use an airlock means you're accepting some risk. There's a reason why the end match screen when you die says that you knew the risks. If you're going into a raid map and are unprepared for a fight at your airlock, or you went in while under geared, that's because you chose to do that. You now know that fights can happen as you are entering a raid map so you need to be ready.

As I said above - most of the time you aren't actually being airlock camped, it's just a fight that just happens to occur at the airlock. It's also not stupid and you are not in a situation where you cannot do anything. You can always try to fight your way out, but as I also explained above not every situation has a perfect "counter play" in this game. Sometimes you're at a disadvantage, and may even be cornered, with no way out other than to fight the enemy. It's part of the game. If you choose to sit and cower in the airlock waiting to die instead of listening for the guy in your example that has the shotgun to start reloading so you can rush them, or peek and take a few shots, or run out of the airlock and try to get away then that's on you.

You aren't being punished, it's just part of the game.

Originally posted by toneitdown:
I hope they will try to resolve this issue somehow before 1.0, would be a shame if they didn't.

Some people think it's an issue, some don't and, factually it isn't an actual issue it's just something some people either don't understand or don't like. It's something that I think players who don't fully comprehend the type of game this is do think is an issue. Several suggestions have been made including a button to close the airlock, adding cameras and monitors so you can see if someone is directly outside the airlock, or windows so you can see outside the airlock. I don't like the "press a button and escape" idea. It's fine to be able to close the airlock once you've actually set foot in the raid, the door has automatically cycled closed and you're re-opening it to get out, but not having to leave the airlock at all and having the ability to just close the door gives players too much of a safety window.

Again, this is a game about risk. Everything you do carries some risk. The only place you're 100% safe is when you are docked and before you open the airlock door if your ship hasn't been breached before you docket. Being able to smash a button and instantly go back to being in the only location in the entire match that is 100% safe is not something I think they should let players do.

Oh, and I wanted to mention one other thing. You chose to title this thread "Spawn camping" but what we are talking about is not spawn camping at all. You spawn once - at the beginning of the match inside your ship. When you get into a fight at an airlock you aren't spawning or respawning. You have been in the match for a while and have made the decision to dock, and to open the airlock. It is not like the game just plops you down directly in front of someone's gun. You're moving around, you have cover available to you, you are making decisions and are choosing your own actions.
Last edited by Macdallan; Dec 26, 2023 @ 2:57pm
Kozferatu Dec 26, 2023 @ 3:06pm 
I'm not so sure airlock camping is necessarily a thing (have only once found another player directly outside) mainly because the odds might not be all that good that that particular airlock chosen gets used by another player or group and just waiting on the odd chance seems pointless. Maybe on more popular servers at peak times, this could work but I'm on South Asia and just don't see it.

What I think more likely is that you may be arriving at the same airlock location just after another team, who might still be in the area and hear the airlock cycling. I had a game like last last night, we were literally just in the hallway adjacent to the airlock we'd just left and heard it opening, so went back and killed the arriving team. Just bad timing and luck on their part.
Macdallan Dec 26, 2023 @ 3:30pm 
Originally posted by Kozferatu:
I'm not so sure airlock camping is necessarily a thing (have only once found another player directly outside) mainly because the odds might not be all that good that that particular airlock chosen gets used by another player or group and just waiting on the odd chance seems pointless. Maybe on more popular servers at peak times, this could work but I'm on South Asia and just don't see it.

What I think more likely is that you may be arriving at the same airlock location just after another team, who might still be in the area and hear the airlock cycling. I had a game like last last night, we were literally just in the hallway adjacent to the airlock we'd just left and heard it opening, so went back and killed the arriving team. Just bad timing and luck on their part.

Yep, actual airlock camping is rare. Usually fights at airlocks happen because someone happens to be nearby when the door starts to open for whatever reason - and it's loud so players can hear it from a decent distance. The airlock opens slowly so it actually gives players time to react to it and that's clearly by design. It's also smart for players who hear airlocks cycling to set up to deal with whoever comes out rather than letting them get inside the raid.
Last edited by Macdallan; Dec 26, 2023 @ 3:30pm
KilledJoy Dec 27, 2023 @ 1:24am 
Originally posted by toneitdown:
Hi,
So I picked the game up yesterday and I've been actually really enjoying the gameplay loop and the how exciting the raid can be when you extract full of cool loot. So far my only gripe with the game are people who camp your spawn (and I'm sure I'm just adding to the pile of complaint about this at this point but still), most of the time these are duos who just wait for your airlock to open and shoot you to death from different angles. Now, I understand that getting to any mission asap is part of the decision making but in situation like this there is really no counter play. Easy fix - let players close the Airlock from the inside, so they can get out and try different entry or just loot crates in space.
The real question is, why hasn't this been implemented yet. After 3 situations like these, I've been just doing some naked runs because I genuinely expect to get camped and I know there will be nothing I can do.
Obviously game is in EA but Idk if this has been acknowledged by devs in any way.
Been playing bit over a year and only had this issue twice.

First time was a retarded AI running back and forth back and forth in some kind of broken path finding loop that kept me locked inside my own airlock making it shut before i could run out.

And the other bout 30 minutes ago someone hiding in a corner of the airlock exit i dont usually check

.... 99% of cases where people complain bout camping they stand in the middle of their airlock after hitting open and deserve the death. Guess what your airlock has cover try using it and not run straight out if you know "camping" is an issue.

Its annoying but if you know its an issue how do you keep falling for it... its not like its a bug its something you can prepare for and know is gonna happen lol.
Last edited by KilledJoy; Dec 27, 2023 @ 1:26am
METTCtheDoc Dec 27, 2023 @ 8:43am 
Thanks for the discussions and explanations on this folks, glad to see it happening.
toneitdown Dec 27, 2023 @ 9:03am 
Well I definitely mean camping in its most literal meaning, as soon as I open the gate I have guys aiming at me standing behind a cover. That being said, I do agree it does not happen that often (2/3 times in my 10h) and you would think with a niche looter fps like this there would be more sweats and campers but surprisingly not. I guess the game also does a good job at preventing this type of encounters, to a degree.
It seems like people here came to terms with it and while still I don't really get the point of not being able to close the airlock from the inside (it really doesn't make any sense, no matter how hard yall try to find a 'reason' for it, it's basically the only purely gamey feature in the game), I'm not going to argue with it. I said all I wanted to say, and thankfully I'm already past the point of sweating about every good loot I get so next time I get camped, I probably won't be as annoyed as I was in my first 5 hours.
Last edited by toneitdown; Dec 27, 2023 @ 9:12am
Macdallan Dec 27, 2023 @ 12:01pm 
Originally posted by toneitdown:
Well I definitely mean camping in its most literal meaning, as soon as I open the gate I have guys aiming at me standing behind a cover. That being said, I do agree it does not happen that often (2/3 times in my 10h) and you would think with a niche looter fps like this there would be more sweats and campers but surprisingly not. I guess the game also does a good job at preventing this type of encounters, to a degree.
It seems like people here came to terms with it and while still I don't really get the point of not being able to close the airlock from the inside (it really doesn't make any sense, no matter how hard yall try to find a 'reason' for it, it's basically the only purely gamey feature in the game), I'm not going to argue with it. I said all I wanted to say, and thankfully I'm already past the point of sweating about every good loot I get so next time I get camped, I probably won't be as annoyed as I was in my first 5 hours.

I really appreciate that some of us don't necessarily agree but can have a good conversation about our points of view. Thanks!

Yeah, I think most players would agree that having no "close door" button inside the airlock is essentially a "video game logic" thing but there are reasons for it. It's a tense moment as that door starts to open because you know someone could be waiting on the other side of the door and the door is pretty loud so even if they aren't waiting just outside there is a good chance someone heard the door open so they know other players are around. It also makes you commit to your decision to enter the raid. Once you start cycling the airlock that's it - you're going in whether you like it or not.

Camping in its most literal meaning as it pertains to video games? Players probably have slightly different interpretations of it. To me camping means hanging out in one spot for a very long time waiting for enemies (NPC or players) to come by, or camping NPC or resource spawn points in games that have setlocations for those things. It could also mean staying close to a player respawn point (spawn camping) in a PVP game and continually spawn killing players so they can't even get out of the spawn. Spawn camping may or may not not include staying in the exact same spot the whole time but it does mean you are staying in one area and spawn camping the enemy team (not applicable to Marauders because players don't respawn). Because of what I consider camping (Set up the tent and get the marshmallows!) when someone is simply waiting in one spot for 15 seconds because they heard your airlock door start to open I would not call that camping at all. If they sat there for 3 or 4 minutes hoping someone would come out of the airlock, or walk by, then yea - that's camping but that isn't what happens most of the time. One reason players don't tend to sit by airlocks is because airlocks are randomly assigned, you could pick one and sit there for the entire match watching but the door might not open. There is a way to check the airlock controls to see if a ship is there or if the airlock is in use, and some players will run around checking at the beginning of a match. This is why waiting a couple minutes if you can't dock first is fairly effective in avoiding conflict at your airlock.

I'm glad your experience has shown you that airlock fights, and actual airlock camping, really doesn't happen all that often, however sometimes players will experience it 3 or 4 times out of a small number of matches and that can be both frustrating and give them the impression that it happens a lot and I think we all understand that. It also happens more often on some maps than others, Colony Cruiser for example tends to have more airlock fighting than most other maps *BUT* it can be completely avoided since you can also breach into that map.

Anyway, glad you're enjoying the game.
Last edited by Macdallan; Dec 27, 2023 @ 12:06pm
theValkyrie Dec 27, 2023 @ 3:04pm 
You should get a faster ship and get into the raid faster. Thats a good way to prevent getting camped.

99% of the people complaining about getting airlock camped are using rustbuckets and spend 10 minutes flying around getting every supply crate.
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Date Posted: Dec 26, 2023 @ 5:15am
Posts: 10