Devs: One reason I noticed why this game is dying

[Kerb]

You gave out too many free accounts loaded with goodies to too many streamers. The top 10-20 leaderboards are pretty much all streamer accounts. And there is a HUGE disparity in the number of kills they've gotten compared to most normal players, by literally thousands of kills.

So in essence, you flooded the game with free accounts stocked with top tier gear, which basically made a huge balance disparity against normal players, which allowed them to wreak havoc against normal players, creating extremely unfair competition, to the point normal players have no hopes of competing. And this is a big issue, because it basically just becomes a get beat up by streamers simulator.

My proposal to a solution: Wipe all accounts that were gifted to streamers. Make them start from scratch. If they truly like the game, they will keep playing. If they don't keep playing, then you know they never cared and only abused the gifted account to predate on other players.

Regardless of what solution is chosen, a solution is necessary, it can't be ignored, because you, the devs, have caused self inflicted damage to the game by not considering the harm it would cause to a game that would already have a small player base, by giving tons of streamers a leg up compared to normal players.

[Shimazu]

Top Tier Gear? I guess Most of the people you mentioned already prestiged and deleted everything anyway, maybe multiple times. I didnt get a free Account played 50h and have multiple million credits a stash full of Boxes and can buy t9 Armour rifles etc. For a few thousand

[Kerb]

Originally posted by Shimazu:

Top Tier Gear? I guess Most of the people you mentioned already prestiged and deleted everything anyway. I didnt get a free Account played 50h and have multiple million credits a stash full of Boxes and can buy t9 Armour rifles etc. For a few thousand

Except it adds up. The streamers, with their initial leg up, allowed them to get more and quicker. When you've got new players when the game dropped, and they were all facing top tier guns and armor, with streamers who knew they were given top tier gear and thus couldn't be touched by anything, they basically went full ham on a much lesser equipped player base, which stifled the actually paying customer player base.

I saw a streamer a while ago that had top tier gear, first time playing the game, didn't know anything about anything, and were going around just wrecking players and opening all the safes.

Looking at the leaderboards is just disheartening, because it proves what I'm saying is true.

[Shimazu]

It proves they have alot of time playing, like its their job or something.

I think you missed the point where they reset their accounts entirely and lost everything to start from scratch.

It takes like a week of casual playing to get so much money that you will never spend it or have to worry about losing gear.

Wipe everything and watch the streamer that play 12 hour daily getting 5 million and 500 kills in a week

You wanna know the reason why its dying? Cause people (me included) already get bored. The gameloop is really short and even with prestige you can progress to top tier stuff in a few days again.

[Kenny]

There should be a template which you need to fill out in order to achieve some constructive feedback.

• How many hours have you played?
  
• Which region do you play on?
  
• What are your Trader-Levels?
  
• What's your gernal account statistic?
  
• So your point would be to introduce skill based matchmaking introducing gear-level and skill?
  
• Are you trying to compete in a rustbucket with the starter gear vs. Marauders with actual guns?

It's nice to see, that you care about the game but some more information on how to come to this conclusion would be helpful.

[Kerb]

Originally posted by Shimazu:

It proves they have alot of time playing, like its their job or something.

I think you missed the point where they reset their accounts entirely and lost everything to start from scratch.

It takes like a week of casual playing to get so much money that you will never spend it or have to worry about losing gear.

Wipe everything and watch the streamer that play 12 hour daily getting 5 million and 500 kills in a week

You wanna know the reason why its dying? Cause people (me included) already get bored. The gameloop is really short and even with prestige you can progress to top tier stuff in a few days again.

It proves there's a problem, even if the damage was already caused. I have never seen a game, ever, where the top 10, 20, 50 players on the leaderboards were all or mostly streamers. So it clearly had an effect.

[Shimazu]

????

Dont even know what to say about that....they are on top of the leaderboard cause its literally their job to play that game.

The effect causing that is they play 12 hours daily while i play 2

Like huh? Literally dozen of streamer in the top50 and i guess any leaderboard you find looks the same.

https://apexlegendsstatus.com/live-ranked-leaderboards/Battle_Royale/PC

[Macdallan]

They did not give out too many free accounts loaded with too much good loot. That's not at all what's going on here. Shimazu is right, they play all the time and that's why they're so good and have so much great gear. You don't get 1k+ player kills in a month if you aren't playing the game like it's a job.

Good gear helps you succeed, but it's not as important in this game as it is in many others. It's also extremely easy to pick up really good loot. Spawn on the prison and start near the locker room or start in the SAS map and near the barracks and you can usually pick up a pretty high tier weapon, uncommon gear, or a supply drop containing all sorts of goodies within the first minute or so. Hit a capital ship and survive and you come out with some of the best gear in the game, and it only takes a few minutes. Run through the Navy Outpost and you'll end up with some light bags, decent weapons and armour, and sometimes some high tier loot if you hit the vault or find the right containers.

It's simply not difficult for a player to amass a large amount of good equipment in this game. It doesn't take a huge level of skill or time either, you just have to learn the basics and have a couple good runs. I've got a fraction of the play time that these top end streamers, and a fraction of the skill that most of them have as well, and my inventory is overflowing with really good stuff. I've probably got 30+ firearms, more ammo than I need, loads of healing supplies and a plethora of crafting materials. I'm sitting at over 1.3 million cash right now, too.

It's not the free accounts that have given these folks great gear, and even if they started with better loot it doesn't matter, they can amass huge amounts of great gear in a matter of hours by simply playing the game.

The OP's proposal is not only completely unnecessary and preposterous it would only slow down a skilled and dedicated player for a few matches and then they would be right back where they were. In effect it would be pointless.

p.s. There will probably be at least a few progress wipes during early access that will wipe absolutely everything from everyone anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it so much.

[Shimazu]

The only reason for a full wipe would be the massive amount of duping happening cause literally anyone can do it.

[Wyrtt]

While normaly I would argue against simping trio of Shimazu Macdack and another one but not this time. This is not Tarkov. Ther is no gear.
You get "best gear" by playing 5 hours with luger. Panzer armor drops from guys on ships, panzer with pockets can be found at the navy base. And all of that armor is just 1-2 points better than cheap craftable armor with huge pockets and 8 defence.

"best guns"? ALL high tier guns except for bar are trash. Pitiful increase in dmg does not cover higher recoil and ammo cost\size.
By far the best 10 mm guns or 9mm if you can aim at the head. All of them you can buy from traders.

[Shimazu]

MP40 with silencer, best gun

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by Shimazu:

MP40 with silencer, best gun

I do well with it, especially if it's also got a stock since that drastically reduces the recoil, and it's not that hard to find nor is it all that expensive to purchase.

[Kerb]

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

While normaly I would argue against simping trio of Shimazu Macdack and another one but not this time. This is not Tarkov. Ther is no gear.
You get "best gear" by playing 5 hours with luger. Panzer armor drops from guys on ships, panzer with pockets can be found at the navy base. And all of that armor is just 1-2 points better than cheap craftable armor with huge pockets and 8 defence.

"best guns"? ALL high tier guns except for bar are trash. Pitiful increase in dmg does not cover higher recoil and ammo cost\size.
By far the best 10 mm guns or 9mm if you can aim at the head. All of them you can buy from traders.

When someone has more loot to start, they're going to shred everyone they come across, causing them to lose gear and burn through resources, or causing them to simply go in with no gear in order to build up free gear. Either way, it means they're fully equipped, while others lose. Eventually that takes its toll. The problem is, the damage is long since done.

Just look at the leaderboards. The difference between the top 50 is 900 - 5700 kills. That's a kill rate of at least 5 times more. So for every 1 kill a normal player got, even a sweaty one, a streamer got on average 5 kills, and it's not just because they play more, there's plenty of no lifer non streamers in games. It means even those no lifers had no chance of competing, let alone normal players.

In the end, it massively elevates streamers above paid customers. They're always that one step ahead in everything, from resources to loot, which means they can also afford to lose more at a whim.

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by murdernator:

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

While normaly I would argue against simping trio of Shimazu Macdack and another one but not this time. This is not Tarkov. Ther is no gear.
You get "best gear" by playing 5 hours with luger. Panzer armor drops from guys on ships, panzer with pockets can be found at the navy base. And all of that armor is just 1-2 points better than cheap craftable armor with huge pockets and 8 defence.

"best guns"? ALL high tier guns except for bar are trash. Pitiful increase in dmg does not cover higher recoil and ammo cost\size.
By far the best 10 mm guns or 9mm if you can aim at the head. All of them you can buy from traders.

When someone has more loot to start, they're going to shred everyone they come across, causing them to lose gear and burn through resources, or causing them to simply go in with no gear in order to build up free gear. Either way, it means they're fully equipped, while others lose. Eventually that takes its toll. The problem is, the damage is long since done.

Just look at the leaderboards. The difference between the top 50 is 900 - 5700 kills. That's a kill rate of at least 5 times more. So for every 1 kill a normal player got, even a sweaty one, a streamer got on average 5 kills, and it's not just because they play more, there's plenty of no lifer non streamers in games. It means even those no lifers had no chance of competing, let alone normal players.

In the end, it massively elevates streamers above paid customers. They're always that one step ahead in everything, from resources to loot, which means they can also afford to lose more at a whim.

You're missing the point - everyone can gear up in just a few good runs. Get in, get some gear, get out. Do that a few times and the playing field is level. You can also kill anyone in the game with any weapon, the head shot multiplier levels the playing field a lot. Sure, someone with a higher damage gun, or better gear, has a bit of an advantage, but it doesn't matter what you're wearing or wielding - a Welrod or SVT shot to the head ends you. Skill (and being sneaky) matters much more than gear so wiping a highly skilled player's account is not going to make a significant difference. They'll gear back up very, very quickly (potentially in just a few matches) and the situation will go right back to where it was before they were wiped.

[Kerb]

The point is when they have things like that before everyone else, that stifles everyone else, while also keeping them permanently elevated above other players. You're acting like I'm saying it keeps players from ever getting a chance to get anything better than basic loot or equipment, yet that's not what I'm saying.

And when you essentially have like 50 streamers with high level gear on release of the game, all ready to go out and go full ham on regular players, it's not like we're talking about just a single player. We're talking about literally thousands of players, getting wrecked by people who are elevated above them by default. So it's not just you vs one guy with top armor, it's you vs 50+ guys with top level armor, coming across them here and there....when you've got little to nothing. Which means they get to rack up free easy kills, at regular players expense.

Even when players upgrade, they're still going to be facing these top level armor and guns from these accounts. Every unceremonious kill by them, is something that sets other players back. So there are literally 10's of thousands of kills by streamers, that translates into lost loot and progress, simply because they started with the better gear, which allowed them to keep leveling up quicker, which allowed them to sit on a larger pile of stash that will always always always be bigger than even the most try hard of regular players, because they had that boost from the start.

[Macdallan]

Originally posted by murdernator:

The point is when they have things like that before everyone else, that stifles everyone else, while also keeping them permanently elevated above other players. You're acting like I'm saying it keeps players from ever getting a chance to get anything better than basic loot or equipment, yet that's not what I'm saying.

And when you essentially have like 50 streamers with high level gear on release of the game, all ready to go out and go full ham on regular players, it's not like we're talking about just a single player. We're talking about literally thousands of players, getting wrecked by people who are elevated above them by default. So it's not just you vs one guy with top armor, it's you vs 50+ guys with top level armor, coming across them here and there....when you've got little to nothing. Which means they get to rack up free easy kills, at regular players expense.

Even when players upgrade, they're still going to be facing these top level armor and guns from these accounts. Every unceremonious kill by them, is something that sets other players back. So there are literally 10's of thousands of kills by streamers, that translates into lost loot and progress, simply because they started with the better gear, which allowed them to keep leveling up quicker, which allowed them to sit on a larger pile of stash that will always always always be bigger than even the most try hard of regular players, because they had that boost from the start.

You're still missing the point. It doesn't matter if you give anyone all the best gear in the game, or take away all the gear and progress from someone who plays this game for 80+ hours a week. Every single player can obtain everything the game has to offer in a relatively short amount of time. A completely new player armed with only the Luger can still take out the best player with the best gear if they land a few head shots or play carefully and ambush them. Wiping the accounts of the streamers who were given some free stuff a month ago won't matter now, and that's what you're suggesting as a fix for this imaginary problem. Yes, that's right, it's not an actual issue at all.

Let me remind you of what you suggested since it seems like you're ignoring the fact that you made a very, very bad suggestion.

Originally posted by murdernator:

My proposal to a solution: Wipe all accounts that were gifted to streamers. Make them start from scratch. If they truly like the game, they will keep playing. If they don't keep playing, then you know they never cared and only abused the gifted account to predate on other players.

It's a skill difference, not a gear difference. Period. I'm done with you. Next, please.