Armor

[Hiki]

Hey is it me or armor just feels nonexistential after 1.0 release? Im literally 2 shoot for lazar in a tier 4 armor (which isnt the best i know but 2 shoot? seriously....) and i cant even snipe him because he shoot me down from sniper distance too. But not only at lazar it feels everywhere that my armor just not even half as good as it was before. Meanwhile enemys armor still as hard to hit through as before 1.0

[Ottomic]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1782120/discussions/0/4699036262719334981/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1782120/discussions/0/4699035966526064717/

[D.Kay]

I don't really feel like you do and here's my point:
I use to rock the SEVA T5 scientist armor in E.A which was at 65% fragility and now is at only 28%.
Most of the time when I died with a armor level 4 or +. it's either because I've made a bad engagement and didn't retreat when I needed to or when I've got jumped by a fcker rockin' either AP ammo or a DMR/Sniper guy (which will destroy you).

Whatever you play (E.A or 1.0) I feel like the moment you get ambush by someone, you will get your ♥♥♥♥ destroyed.
I've engage many bandits in Industrials Zone with the AFZ-3 (T5) that you can get with the Igor Quest when killin' the green army fcker in makeshift and that armor (while not the best for radiation) did a really good job tanking heavy hits.

Again if you go against an IA that have a Sniper riffle and worse a DMR. you might want to break the engagement and flank 'em.

It's only my point of views but I don't feel like anything change that much from early game to 1.0 when it comes to armor except the fact that Doc won't repair any armor from T4 to T6 and if you buy mini repair kit / toolkit to repair any armor beyond T3, it's a pain rubble wise.

Back in the day Kibba armor used to have 70 fragility when now it's only 40. I don't know if it's truly mean anything when anything in the mall have AP ammo.

Again I feel like even with the change in Fragility (which is lower in 1.0 than is was in the E.A)
the moment you get surprise or you let the NPC close to you, except DMR and SNIPER rifle NPC, you're fcked.

For Lazar I've manage to destroy him with the base kit Mozin Nagant a few time without him even attackin' me so ...

Edit: after seeing Ottomic's post and all of the reply, The only thing bothering me is that a heavy repair kit cannot repair ANYTHING that's is after* 60% which is fcking dumb in my opinion, heavy repair kit cost a lot to craft and should be able to repair anything whatever if the weapons or armor is after 60%.

[JudgeMental1337]

yeah its pretty dumb. Even Tarkov got better armor system lol

[D.Kay]

Originally posted by Judge Mental:

yeah its pretty dumb. Even Tarkov got better armor system lol

The worse part about this: It's the truth

[Darkon]

Armor is like throwing a dice, if you are lucky ricochet or low damage if not dead in 1-2 hits.
The thing is that Lazar is a boss with a fast firing high pen ZZ Vel, that thing can kill easily well equiped players and his guards are really dangerous. You will have issues even in class 5 armor.

I recommend using the corners and when they discover you/after firing move fast, away from your location, try to go carefully to the other side of the village using the outer roads.

Don't forget to clear and prepare the scenario before the fight, clear the roads and houses from ghouls to make your life easier.

Originally posted by D.Kay:

Again I feel like even with the change in Fragility (which is lower in 1.0 than is was in the E.A)
the moment you get surprise or you let the NPC close to you, except DMR and SNIPER rifle NPC, you're fcked.

Fragility have nothing to do with damage, it determines just how fast the armor lose durability when something hits it (high % fragility = breaks faster)

[D.Kay]

Originally posted by Darkon:

Armor is like throwing a dice, if you are lucky ricochet or low damage if not dead in 1-2 hits.
The thing is that Lazar is a boss with a fast firing high pen ZZ Vel, that thing can kill easily well equiped players and his guards are really dangerous. You will have issues even in class 5 armor.

I recommend using the corners and when they discover you/after firing move fast, away from your location, try to go carefully to the other side of the village using the outer roads.

Don't forget to clear and prepare the scenario before the fight, clear the roads and houses from ghouls to make your life easier.

Originally posted by D.Kay:

Again I feel like even with the change in Fragility (which is lower in 1.0 than is was in the E.A)
the moment you get surprise or you let the NPC close to you, except DMR and SNIPER rifle NPC, you're fcked.

Fragility have nothing to do with damage, it determines just how fast the armor lose durability when something hits it (high % fragility = breaks faster)

Alright, what I'm gonna say what I think I believe is true:
running with a 100% T5 armor is not the same as running with a T5 20% armor. why? cuz since i've been playin' this game, I feel like a low durability armor doesn't tank anything.
for me again* (i'm not sure if I'm right) If you run a T5 armor with 20% durability, you can get kill by anything, while being at 100% you will be able to sponge most the first shot (depending on the weapons) you will take.

Why? Because through my experience: the less your armor has durability, the more ANY type of bullet will be able to go through your used armor.

Again, we will need the devs to confirm this theory but for me: Yes Fragily does have something to do with damage: the more you have fragility, the more your armor will break and the more your armor is broken, the more you're exposed to ♥♥♥♥♥♥ bullet like HP.

Again tho. I might be wrong tho, that's why I would like the devs to hope in this thread so we all be clear about how armor works o/

Edit: And I'm prolly wrong since it's a indie game, and I'm thinking too much xD

[Hiki]

My main problem is that before 1.0 it felt as normal mode now it feels like hardcore eventhough i didnt change any settings only min weight i can carry (cuz i like looting :D). I really liked running maps looting an invfull loot and escape while ocasionally dieing to ambushes or just beeing ballsy and fighting without thinking or a strategy. Now even a 1,5sec peak can cost your life with full armor and hp which isnt fun or challanging it just plain stupid in my opinion. There are tons of settings to change difficulty why make basic default hardcore when you cant change it after you started? (correct me if im wrong, plz atm i kinda wanting to lower enemy dmg) Now armor cost a ton to repair which is nice but then make it worth repairing it.
I see everyones point but it was way fun before 1.0 in MY opinion but everyone have different taste so we will see what happens in the future :)

[Darkon]

Originally posted by D.Kay:

Alright, what I'm gonna say what I think I believe is true:
running with a 100% T5 armor is not the same as running with a T5 20% armor. why? cuz since i've been playin' this game, I feel like a low durability armor doesn't tank anything.
for me again* (i'm not sure if I'm right) If you run a T5 armor with 20% durability, you can get kill by anything, while being at 100% you will be able to sponge most the first shot (depending on the weapons) you will take.

Why? Because through my experience: the less your armor has durability, the more ANY type of bullet will be able to go through your used armor.

Again, we will need the devs to confirm this theory but for me: Yes Fragily does have something to do with damage: the more you have fragility, the more your armor will break and the more your armor is broken, the more you're exposed to ♥♥♥♥♥♥ bullet like HP.

Again tho. I might be wrong tho, that's why I would like the devs to hope in this thread so we all be clear about how armor works o/

Edit: And I'm prolly wrong since it's a indie game, and I'm thinking too much xD

As far as I know Fragility just affect how quickly it may lose durability from damage. It is just a multiplier to durability loss not to incoming damage BUT losing durability affects armor class effectiveness.

So while fragility doesn't affect directly incoming damage it makes your armor more effective thanks to not losing durability after a hit or two.

Edit:
My thumb rule is:
Class: higher = better
Durability: higher = better
Fragility: lower = better (less damage to armor durability after hit = more time with an effective armor)

[iliekP3aches]

The armor problem also feels worse in 1.0 because of the addition of certain weapons like DMRs, the fact that the enemies have infinite armor whereas you don't, and a lot of the maps do not allow you to maneuver. Repairing the armor cost vs the actual help it gives is not worth it either now that you can't have the NPC repair it, you have to buy kits for high for class 4+. How do you use the sniper/flanking methods recommended when places like the mall and indoor maps don't allow it? The fragility, repair, and way the armors stop damage all fight against each other and make for a poor mechanic. You can't even say this is realism because even in real life highly rated armor doesn't magically become worse faster vs lower class armor. A shot to soft kevlar significantly degrades the effectiveness of it just as a ceramic plate maybe moreso against rated threats. Melee shouldn't be doing more damage to high class armor than bullets either.

[Darkon]

Originally posted by iliekP3aches:

The armor problem also feels worse in 1.0 because of the addition of certain weapons like DMRs, the fact that the enemies have infinite armor whereas you don't, and a lot of the maps do not allow you to maneuver. Repairing the armor cost vs the actual help it gives is not worth it either now that you can't have the NPC repair it, you have to buy kits for high for class 4+. How do you use the sniper/flanking methods recommended when places like the mall and indoor maps don't allow it? The fragility, repair, and way the armors stop damage all fight against each other and make for a poor mechanic. You can't even say this is realism because even in real life highly rated armor doesn't magically become worse faster vs lower class armor. A shot to soft kevlar significantly degrades the effectiveness of it just as a ceramic plate maybe moreso against rated threats. Melee shouldn't be doing more damage to high class armor than bullets either.

You are right in this...and new repair system with the new resource is horrible