Ghouls and Wolves feel generally too fast

[Vi-El]

Please stop assuming how I play. - Edit

Before I start, this isnt about some bs like "I got ambushed and now I go cry about it on the forums". This is about how the game feels due to how the enemies tend to work.

Overall the gameplay, in terms of firefights, feels fair. It is generally enjoyable, I get to actually be tactical and all works out if I take my time with fights.

The same cannot be said about Ghouls and Wolves, which often enough are rabbid in more than one way and that way primarily is about the RNG of their behavior.

Take Wolves for instance. If you get spotted they MAY attack you or they MAY ♥♥♥♥ off. Ok fine, not too big of an issue. Get spotted? Shoot the wolf. The problem here is that even if you dont do that and the wolf runs, they dont alert the pack to hunt you down.

The second issue comes when the pack spots you and immediately runs you down. Now on its own, this is a non issue. I like that you are being hunted down as a concept. The issue pertains to the speed at which it is going to happen. Cause with how RNG like their movement tends to be, you will not be able to just shoot them down. If the Animal AI would move strategicaly (like a pack of wolves should do) I would get it. But they dont.

However wolves are not the biggest issue here. They are avoidable to a large degree. The bigger issue are ghouls. Quick as hell jumpingbeans which spit acid. The "Spawn in wall, invisible" bug aside, their general behavior isnt different to wolves minus the running away part.

However the way they move towards you and aim down the center of the playermodel and also inflict bleed with amost every attack, makes them very much not enjoyable to fight. And yes yes, I get it. You arent supposed to have fun, you are supposed to survive. But its one thing to survive and another to walk around a corner with Tier 3 armor almost fully repaired and then get hit 3 times by a random ghoul which didnt make a sound and bleed to death 3 seconds later cause you couldnt hit the damn thing for 2 seconds prior since its just jumping around you like crazy.

From what I gather, Ghouls are effectivly Snorks. Snorks on their own are dangerous not because they are quick but because they deal lots of damage and can cover large distances. However when they do jump, they also stumble and give players ways to attack them.

Ghouls on the other hand just run towards you, deal bleed and damage and sometimes rarely spit acid.

I would love to see a small rework on how their AI works, genuinly.

[Abyssal Crow]

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

And yes yes, I get it. You arent supposed to have fun, you are supposed to survive.

No, curb this mentality. It's a video game and games are for fun, you are right in your complaints. There's difficulty and then there's "lmao die" and no one ever has fun with Lmao Die moments. While I never had the issues you've had it's good to get your gripes out in a game that is Early Access which has the entire point of requesting adjustments and fixes.

[70's Legend]

If you think wolves and ghouls are fast I have a bad news for you.

[CrySeeker]

Originally posted by Mamelle de biche:

If you think wolves and ghouls are fast I have a bad news for you.

yeah ghouls are target practice for the real threat after all ......

[Vi-El]

Originally posted by Abyssal Crow:

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

And yes yes, I get it. You arent supposed to have fun, you are supposed to survive.

No, curb this mentality. It's a video game and games are for fun, you are right in your complaints. There's difficulty and then there's "lmao die" and no one ever has fun with Lmao Die moments. While I never had the issues you've had it's good to get your gripes out in a game that is Early Access which has the entire point of requesting adjustments and fixes.

Well yes, but survival is the point of the game. The fun comes from me surviving in the game based on the games general aspects.

But like Tarkov it too needs improvement, that however does not get rid of the intentional design. Tarkov for instance is hardcore on immersion and realism which is what people are looking for. Doesnt change that its hindered by non-existant matchmaking and elite players constantly stomping noobs or low time players. Its fun when you actually get to play it, ie avoid literally every player in a competitive multiplayer FPS game.

[CrySeeker]

but ghoul are generally easy to kill for the most part, you only need 2 bullets if you are using AKM, 3 bullets if you use SMG like kriss or P90, and probably 1 bullet if you using mosin nagant

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by Mamelle de biche:

If you think wolves and ghouls are fast I have a bad news for you.

You should include more information, otherwise he might blink and actually miss what you ment :>

On a more helpful note: Wolves are the issue? Those ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ don'T even hunt you down. If you happen to come across a pack and they start coming for you, just turn and run, they won't follow you (while ghouls will).
Also, wolf AI is pack AI, so let's say you got 5 wolves, you don't need to kill 5 wolves, kill 3, or even 2, will change their behavior and they'll become very defensive, stopping in their tracks and just snarling at you, instead of closing in the last 3 meters to eat your pretty face of your skull.

[Baron01]

It was already alluded in above post but I reiterate, there are far quicker enemies ahead. I think Blink (probably fastest enemy in the game) is far too quick to move. Their weakness is that they are very fragile so end-game weapons kill it in a single or at max two bullets.

There are bigger problem (pun intended) called Big, which are fast and also eat a lot of bullets. I generally think enemy speed is too high compared to your own speed.

[BlueSpark]

I don't think that wolves and ghouls are too fast in general, and I don't have a problem with wolf AI, either.

However, I do agree that the way these two enemy types zip around you erratically once they're in melee range is too punishing, especially combined with the fact that you can't sprint away after they hit you. Instead of reducing their speed, however, I'd like to see a small delay every time they change direction. Something like 0.2 seconds of standing still should be enough to give you more of a fighting chance while still making them deadly adversaries at close range.

[Odd^Paradigm]

Originally posted by Baron01:

It was already alluded in above post but I reiterate, there are far quicker enemies ahead. I think Blink (probably fastest enemy in the game) is far too quick to move. Their weakness is that they are very fragile so end-game weapons kill it in a single or at max two bullets.

There are bigger problem (pun intended) called Big, which are fast and also eat a lot of bullets. I generally think enemy speed is too high compared to your own speed.

"Big" is an absolute nightmare. Not only is it impossibly fast, but I think the hitbox is smaller than its model. That and the fact that it runs around in random directions at lightning speed, on top of being a total bullet sponge, can make it nearly impossible to kill

[Rin Palora]

If you get killed by wolves and ghouls regularly you are doing something wrong and no nerfs to them will help you with the other enemies that function the same.

Probably you are not looking around as much as you need, you arn't using right click to check the area further out, you arn't paying attention to sounds, you arn't going around corners properly (don't hug the walls), you arn't attacking properly (if you see a hostile backup to max range and engage from there no from were you first spotted it) .

This game punishes carelessness and rewards caution.
There is a proper way of moving about and a bad way.

Originally posted by Odd^Paradigm:

"Big" is an absolute nightmare. Not only is it impossibly fast, but I think the hitbox is smaller than its model. That and the fact that it runs around in random directions at lightning speed, on top of being a total bullet sponge, can make it nearly impossible to kill

Eh, not really. It depends on your character skills but fast firing weapons with large magazines can stomp him hard (F-90).

[Vi-El]

Originally posted by Rin Palora:

If you get killed by wolves and ghouls regularly you are doing something wrong and no nerfs to them will help you with the other enemies that function the same.

Probably you are not looking around as much as you need, you arn't using right click to check the area further out, you arn't paying attention to sounds, you arn't going around corners properly (don't hug the walls), you arn't attacking properly (if you see a hostile backup to max range and engage from there no from were you first spotted it) .

This game punishes carelessness and rewards caution.
There is a proper way of moving about and a bad way.

Originally posted by Odd^Paradigm:

"Big" is an absolute nightmare. Not only is it impossibly fast, but I think the hitbox is smaller than its model. That and the fact that it runs around in random directions at lightning speed, on top of being a total bullet sponge, can make it nearly impossible to kill

Eh, not really. It depends on your character skills but fast firing weapons with large magazines can stomp him hard (F-90).

Alright full stop.

I played Tarkov
I played Stalker
I played Stalker Anomaly
(I even elude to it in my post that I played Stalker by refering to Snorks!)
The second one you can even check on steam on my end. I played other games which have a very heavy survival focus which you can see on my steam account too. Now I dont expect you to check this unless you are assuming how I play.... WELP!

No, I know how to play this game. I do everything you mention and then some. Stalker made me pay attention to it more than Tarkov ever did. Yet I still come to this conclusion about a game that is WIP.

Please stop excusing problems by assuming how other people play the game wrong. I had enough of that with Tarkov and its player base which is why I decided to stop playing it. You arent being helpful doing this, you are patronizing.

[Rin Palora]

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

...
I played Tarkov
I played Stalker
I played Stalker Anomaly
...

No, I know how to play this game. I do everything you mention and then some. Stalker made me pay attention to it more than Tarkov ever did. Yet I still come to this conclusion about a game that is WIP.

All of those are first person not top down.

If you know how to play this game why are you struggling against wolves and ghouls, literally the first mobs you can encounter, when most of us are not?

You are clearly doing something wrong.

Now you can either accept that and try to improve or you can blame the game for a failing on your end and be laughed at by everyone else.

[Vi-El]

Originally posted by Rin Palora:

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

...
I played Tarkov
I played Stalker
I played Stalker Anomaly
...

No, I know how to play this game. I do everything you mention and then some. Stalker made me pay attention to it more than Tarkov ever did. Yet I still come to this conclusion about a game that is WIP.

All of those are first person not isometric.

If you know how to play this game why are you struggling against wolves and ghouls, literally the first mobs you can encounter, when most of us are not?

You are clearly doing something wrong.

Now you can either accept that and try to improve or you can blame the game for a failing on your end and be laughed at by everyone else.

Bud, maybe stop assuming that I play the game wrong when I literally do everything you say BECAUSE I played games like this before?

I literally said in my post that "it isnt some bs and now I come crying to the forums about it". I have critique for the game, take it or leave it. Stop being a patronizing douchebag that as soon as they get some pushback doubles down. Maybe assume the other end is as smart as you are instead of acting like I am a moron. That should help you in the future.

[Rin Palora]

Originally posted by Black Puppet:

I literally said in my post that "it isnt some bs and now I come crying to the forums about it". I have critique for the game, take it or leave it. Stop being a patronizing douchebag that as soon as they get some pushback doubles down. Maybe assume the other end is as smart as you are instead of acting like I am a moron. That should help you in the future.

Stop assuming others are assuming. I didn't call you a moron, but at this rate I might. I told you a fact: if you have issues with wolves and ghouls you need to change the way you play the game. IF you were doing what I suggested than you wouldn't die to them and you wouldn't think them too fast. IF you were paying attention you'd notice that your view range, even without aiming, is greater than that of a wolf or a ghoul, considerably so, IF you do things properly you can always shoot them before they aggro. And if you think these enemies are too fast you will be owned hard by the next ones.

As for your critique, making those easy to kill enemies slower, will literally makes those enemies moot, they're barely a threat as it is.

[Vi-El]

"Stop assuming others are assuming. I didn't call you a moron, but at this rate I might."

Right you only acted like I play the game wrongly without knowing how I play and then continued to give me advice based on your own percieved reality on how I play the game without knowing how I play the game. Lets take a gander on what that is called. Right, making assumptions. Who of us is doing that again? Also, lol you wanna call me a moron now? Wow, expected nothing more from a "nice and helpful player".

"I told you a fact: if you have issues with wolves and ghouls you need to change the way you play the game. IF you were doing what I suggested than you wouldn't die to them and you wouldn't think them too fast. "

Here is a fact: I know this. I know this to the point of making various observations in my post. Now if you had actually read the post instead of being a patronizing douchebag who acts like they know everything better than anyone, youd know this :D

"IF you were paying attention you'd notice that your view range, even without aiming, is greater than that of a wolf or a ghoul, considerably so, IF you do things properly you can always shoot them before they aggro."

Really? Damn. Here is your problem tho... I know that! Again, its almost like... you are assuming how I play and how much I know of game like this! I mean clearly you arent doing that, I mean you said as much so clearly that is quite incorrect to even think of.

"And if you think these enemies are too fast you will be owned hard by the next ones."

Wow, its almost like you took my topic title as one broad statement and then ignored my entire post. I talked about why I think they are too fast. Someone in the comments even said that they arent really too fast but they could use a general rework, for instance a 0.2 second delay on movement change to make it more managable in combat instead of them being jumpingbeans close up. Guess what. I agree with that! Its almost like... you dont read what I say!

"As for your critique, making those easy to kill enemies slower, will literally makes those enemies moot, they're barely a threat as it is."

Ok... how? How is making them slower a problem? Can you tell me that? Or is it more that you, the oh so grand epic winner of the chicken dinner pro thinks he knows what fits the game best for all players? Slowing the enemies down doesnt mean to make them half as fast. It doesnt even mean they have to be 75% as fast. It could be a speed of 90-95% compared to what it was before.

OR the 0.2 second delay, which may even 0.5 or whatever as to what another person on this thread said as a suggestion! Ya know... THE ONE I AGREE WITH!

Ya wanna double down some more and prove how much you dont assume what others think and play like?
Thanks, I needed this xD