Modder or Gear Lover?

[Cryptix]

Title.

On one hand it would be good for my guns to perform better, on the other it would be nice to not have to worry about my armour (as much).

[fda]

I've chosen Gear Lover, rarely have to repair my guns (Armor gets shreded anyway) & weapon mods has just ok stats as they are

[Lack of Stuff]

Modder, more damage means less shooting and less getting shot which improves condition decay as a side effect. Also by the time I get to specializing gunsmith money isn't a concern anyway.

[Cryptix]

Originally posted by Lack of Stuff:

Modder, more damage means less shooting and less getting shot which improves condition decay as a side effect. Also by the time I get to specializing gunsmith money isn't a concern anyway.

Good points here can't disagree, might have to go for that. Although I find even with hunter gear the armour goes so quickly... I just got the SEVA suit so I am a little worried it will be useless after 4 shots... 65 is such bad fragility.

[fda]

Damage doesn't matter much against armored (more like against bullet sponges like Big but what's the point of gearing aginst him specialy?) opponents, more important is armor penetration which is not affected by mods - depending on weapon just few M61 bullets kills Kibba. After all you can always respec with the book sold by Barman so do be afraid to experiment, thats what early access is

[Lack of Stuff]

Originally posted by fda:

Damage doesn't matter much against armored (more like against bullet sponges like Big but what's the point of gearing aginst him specialy?) opponents, more important is armor penetration which is not affected by mods - depending on weapon just few M61 bullets kills Kibba. After all you can always respec with the book sold by Barman so do be afraid to experiment, thats what early access is

I prefer just 1 bullet to kill Kibba. Without know exactly where the thresholds are for HP it's hard to be definitive but going all dmg allows me to 1-shot Kibba (All the bosses) and 2 shot Bigs which cuts down on getting return fire or dealing with an angry mutant.

Edit: In truth I don't take Kibba very seriously, his RPK is awful. Lazar and Arman are both way more dangerous.

[Og-the-Trog]

Wow, I don't get why you'd choose modder.
It's only a measly +20% effects, and weapon mods only really effect ergo and accuracy.
Not damage. Not firerate. Not pen.
And on the other hand Gear lover with its 45% durability reduction theoretically doubles armor durability. This might make fragile tier 5/6/7 stuff actually viable without spending a fortune and several kg on repair kits every mission.
It's not even a contest in my estimation.

Does modder buff the effect from scopes+sniper?
And, does it also increase the negative effects of mods??

[CL4PTR4P420]

gear lover

[SireSteelHell]

modder increases damage.. not directly,, but stuff like handgrips etc

[Lack of Stuff]

Long barrel mods increase damage. Muzzle breaks can also buff damage but I prefer suppressors. Not sure about negative stats and modder but if it does impact it it's not by much.

[Og-the-Trog]

So instead of +10 damage you get +12?
Nah, doubled armor durability sounds better.

[Lack of Stuff]

Originally posted by Og-the-Trog:

So instead of +10 damage you get +12?
Nah, doubled armor durability sounds better.

If that works for you then great. I usually don't take many shots per run so the increased durability is often wasted whereas increased weapon stats are always useful.

Armor repair is similarly really never an issue past mid-game as you just get inundated with cash.

The small damage boosts are all about just inching past the thresholds where it takes 2 bullets to kill instead of 3 or getting 1-shot kills instead of 2 shots depending on the weapon for tough targets.

[Og-the-Trog]

Increased weapon stats are useless if they make no difference.
Say an enemy has 60 health & 40 armor.
You shoot him with a modern marauder 700 FMJ (61 damage 29 pen, x1.15dmg=70dmg)
It makes NO difference (zero, none, zip) if you do 70 damage with Gear lover vs 71* damage with Modder.
The mook is dead in 1 shot either way.
Bigs die to 2 hits either way.
The only difference is slightly faster aim time from Modder vs DOUBLED armor durability from GL, and the latter can actually make the difference between pulling out of a run just a few encounters in or going all the way until your inventory is full and the mission is completed.
Especially in tighter maps like industrial or mall where you have to go around corners and fight enemies inside their immediate-detection-(and higher hitchance)-range.

[Lack of Stuff]

Originally posted by Og-the-Trog:

Increased weapon stats are useless if they make no difference.
Say an enemy has 60 health & 40 armor.
You shoot him with a modern marauder 700 FMJ (61 damage 29 pen, x1.15dmg=70dmg)
It makes NO difference (zero, none, zip) if you do 70 damage with Gear lover vs 71* damage with Modder.
The mook is dead in 1 shot either way.
Bigs die to 2 hits either way.
The only difference is slightly faster aim time from Modder vs DOUBLED armor durability from GL, and the latter can actually make the difference between pulling out of a run just a few encounters in or going all the way until your inventory is full and the mission is completed.
Especially in tighter maps like industrial or mall where you have to go around corners and fight enemies inside their immediate-detection-(and higher hitchance)-range.

I'm pretty sure that modder is actually boosting the base stats or something cause I just tested it and respeccing it dropped ALL weapon damage, even guns without dmg+ mods.

My Marauder dropped from 66 to 55 dmg. Since it's percentage based it was less pronounced for lower dmg per shot weapons but it was significant enough to drop my Chimera with BP from 1 shot potential to 2 for mall hunters.

For the Marauder specifically it may or may not matter depending on the ammo and the target but for other weapons it definitely makes a difference.

[Og-the-Trog]

hmmm, that does sound better than what the tooltip says
I'm still skeptical about the usefulness though- the only reason I have to retreat early is because I take damage, and the only reason I take damage is personal error...and Modder doesn't help with personal error.
Even in the optimal scenario where modder's buff pushes you over the edge between 1 bullet and 2, or 2 vs 3, spending 1 less AR bullet (or 0.05s) to bring down a bandit doesn't seem as useful as being able to absorb twice as many errant bullets/claw attacks over the course of the mission.

[Lack of Stuff]

Originally posted by Og-the-Trog:

hmmm, that does sound better than what the tooltip says
I'm still skeptical about the usefulness though- the only reason I have to retreat early is because I take damage, and the only reason I take damage is personal error...and Modder doesn't help with personal error.
Even in the optimal scenario where modder's buff pushes you over the edge between 1 bullet and 2, or 2 vs 3, spending 1 less AR bullet (or 0.05s) to bring down a bandit doesn't seem as useful as being able to absorb twice as many errant bullets/claw attacks over the course of the mission.

Isn't that a good thing though. Having 2 options that both provide value is better than a single meta pick.

I need to do more testing but unfortunately the current toughest target to test on (Kibba) isn't a good subject since he wanders and gets into combat which varies his hp, or the idiot just dies before I get to him.

My primary reason is mainly to cut out return fire. It's not consistent but even with max stealth I've had situations where I scope an NPC and even though both shots are hitscan they still manage to shoot me before dying. Against most weapons this isn't a problem but when they have a Mosin it can take half my health.

I specifically hate it when Lazar or Arman do it cause that 1200 RPM means they've actually killed me in the split second before they died.

Edit: Also dev, plz fix the steam overlay screenshot function, it would make testing this kind of thing much easier without having to use MS paint constantly.