So, what redeeming value does Steve have?

[Giganx]

Serious question, I'm trying to figure out exactly what he's better than other characters at to leverage it, but I'm not coming up with much.

Here's what I know.

Pros: A decent counter hit with B1, but many characters have better CH. A lot of his offense is technically safe, which sounds good in theory but doesn't really pan out online with lag.

Cons: Terrible damage, no range, no threatening lows, weak punish game, barely any launchers, mediocre heat, few to no area/sweep/tracking attacks so he's easily sidestepped,

Tekken 8 is an aggressive game that heavily rewards offense.

Steve seems to be a defensive, CH character who sacrifices near all offensive capability for dodges, CHs and decent frames in neutral. Problem is lag nullifies a lot of it and even if it didn't Steve's playstyle is heavily discouraged in this game. If you're not attacking you're losing, best offense always wins.

[3.14DRILLA_NAKINGE]

Not sure how lag affects frames (it doesnt). His heat got grab 50/50 at least (already better heat than lee), his frames are safest in the game (not a single launch punishable move). Steve is probably most annoying character to fight in the game. He is like hwoarang, but you can only 10f punish.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Pav:

Not sure how lag affects frames (it doesnt). His heat got grab 50/50 at least (already better heat than lee), his frames are safest in the game (not a single launch punishable move). Steve is probably most annoying character to fight in the game. He is like hwoarang, but you can only 10f punish.

Lag affects frames because it creates a frame delay between you and your opponent, which can cause the server, or P2P connection, whatever one this game uses, to actually lose frames. Losing frames means your inputs are delayed and occasionally even lost. A little delay after a move that's only safe by a frame or 2 means you're getting hit.

Still I acknowledge a lot of Steve's stuff is safe, but it's also extremely low damage, can't punish, easy to read, easy to sidestep, can't threaten low. Even if you can't launch him you can easily out maneuver and out damage him.

[3.14DRILLA_NAKINGE]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Pav:

Not sure how lag affects frames (it doesnt). His heat got grab 50/50 at least (already better heat than lee), his frames are safest in the game (not a single launch punishable move). Steve is probably most annoying character to fight in the game. He is like hwoarang, but you can only 10f punish.

Lag affects frames because it creates a frame delay between you and your opponent, which can cause the server, or P2P connection, whatever one this game uses, to actually lose frames. Losing frames means your inputs are delayed and occasionally even lost. A little delay after a move that's only safe by a frame or 2 means you're getting hit.

Still I acknowledge a lot of Steve's stuff is safe, but it's also extremely low damage, can't punish, easy to read, easy to sidestep, can't threaten low. Even if you can't launch him you can easily out maneuver and out damage him.

I never had input drop in this game even at 150 ms. You cant outdamage him good steve will never get launched and win trade because his pokes are just better than most of the chars

[Boss]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Pav:

Not sure how lag affects frames (it doesnt). His heat got grab 50/50 at least (already better heat than lee), his frames are safest in the game (not a single launch punishable move). Steve is probably most annoying character to fight in the game. He is like hwoarang, but you can only 10f punish.

Lag affects frames because it creates a frame delay between you and your opponent, which can cause the server, or P2P connection, whatever one this game uses, to actually lose frames. Losing frames means your inputs are delayed and occasionally even lost. A little delay after a move that's only safe by a frame or 2 means you're getting hit.

Still I acknowledge a lot of Steve's stuff is safe, but it's also extremely low damage, can't punish, easy to read, easy to sidestep, can't threaten low. Even if you can't launch him you can easily out maneuver and out damage him.

If a move is safe at -8 for example, as long as you're not trying to hold back the moment your attack animation finishes, no amount of lag is gonna suddenly make it not safe

[C1REX]

Connection shouldn't affect frames but WiFi connection with jitters can eat inputs and can affect punishes. Probably the main reason why many streamers refuse WiFi matches.

[Giganx]

Packet loss with high latency connections can definitely eat inputs. Wifi is generally a common cause of spotty connections but it's not the only time it can happen.

I've visibly lost inputs and have been jabbed out of safe strings enough to know packet loss is impacting the frame data. It's not so bad it's crippling but losing frames as Steve nullifies a lot of his only offensive advantage.

[pablonesmrtelny]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Serious question, I'm trying to figure out exactly what he's better than other characters at to leverage it, but I'm not coming up with much.

Here's what I know.

Pros: A decent counter hit with B1, but many characters have better CH. A lot of his offense is technically safe, which sounds good in theory but doesn't really pan out online with lag.

Cons: Terrible damage, no range, no threatening lows, weak punish game, barely any launchers, mediocre heat, few to no area/sweep/tracking attacks so he's easily sidestepped,

Tekken 8 is an aggressive game that heavily rewards offense.

Steve seems to be a defensive, CH character who sacrifices near all offensive capability for dodges, CHs and decent frames in neutral. Problem is lag nullifies a lot of it and even if it didn't Steve's playstyle is heavily discouraged in this game. If you're not attacking you're losing, best offense always wins.

Insanely long strings with insane frames. Not exactly frametraps but there are mindgames after almost every hit of every string.
Also Steve has maybe the best recovery on main tools in T8 so most of the time you wont be punished heavily on block or whiff.
Over the top evasiveness with sways or ub3.
Tracking through the roof.
CH b1 kinda insane in T8 where other tools were weakened.

But yeah other than that its true that his lows and approach are sub par. I personally absolutely suck against steve so I cant really go indept how to even beat him. It is true you can afford to be more patient against Steve than against other chars but you can't just sit there. At some points you gotta fight back and that is when the Steve player gotta thrive. Cause pressing anything against Steve means risking your life.

BTW I doubt there IS anything like "defensive" character in T8 and its most certainly not Steve. You got tools to be super active.

[Castyles]

Hard to get in close but when you do... Oh boy... You can spam his moves over and over for DAYS.

[Giganx]

Steve can spam a lot of fast strings, but since he can't really threaten with lows OR range it's pretty easy to hold back and just wait until he's done, or keep backsdashing out of his range and zone him.

I think some people might struggle against Steve only because they're too used to just fishing for launchers, and don't know how to function when that's not an optimal approach. Basically just get out of his very limited range and witness how he suddenly has no way to fight you.

I think the fact that Steve requires a different approach might confuse some people online to. People are so used to actually having to defend lows that they reflexively respect Steve's low game when they really shouldn't. You should rarely bother with crouching to defend against Steve, it just unnecessarily opens you up for mids and overheads.

[SantaBeliever]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Steve can spam a lot of fast strings, but since he can't really threaten with lows OR range it's pretty easy to hold back and just wait until he's done, or keep backsdashing out of his range and zone him.

I think some people might struggle against Steve only because they're too used to just fishing for launchers, and don't know how to function when that's not an optimal approach. Basically just get out of his very limited range and witness how he suddenly has no way to fight you.

I think the fact that Steve requires a different approach might confuse some people online to. People are so used to actually having to defend lows that they reflexively respect Steve's low game when they really shouldn't. You should rarely bother with crouching to defend against Steve, it just unnecessarily opens you up for mids and overheads.

Limited range? Everytime i play against steve he can do some whiff punishing move from range 3.5, 1+2 i think?

[PremiumG98]

great ch buttons, great pokes, good pressure, great frames, great tracking highs, very good low pokes, good stances and evasion, kenpo, okay 50/50 at the wall and in heat, good evasion, good whiff punishment
>Terrible damage
his damage is rather average, not bad at all, and his wallcombo is very good
>but many characters have better CH
only king does, and that char is broken af
>no range
alb2 is a range 3 -3 ob mid, seems good enough to me, sonic fang can whiff punish everything too
>few to no area/sweep/tracking attacks so he's easily sidestepped
his tracking is very good, especially his 50 damage tracking high that is +3 ob, and for mid tracking he can do duck -> ws1, which is pseudo homing, his heatsmash is full homing too

[SPACE UBER™ (Cheez3)]

"steve" and "terrible dmg" dont go along lmao, steve have some insane dmg, u need to lab him more.