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find the pokes that shut down AOP and abuse them
if she AOP or back turns at point blank range you can hop kick and combo punish, obviously character specific, find what works for your character.
Also if she AOP' or back turns it's free rage art punish
use your heat to shut down her heat, she is very strong in heat, so shutting it down is a high priority
what rubbish, when she's in backturn she can insta launch you, i lost count how many times i got launched when she was in backturn and i pressed a button
where did I say for you to press a button other than to hop kick, when she has her back turned?
If you're dumb enough to mash highs when she has her back to you, you deserve to be launched into orbit
jokes aside, my only way of dealing with her are armored attacks.
How do you escape her grab mix-up that launches?
Does anyone on the board main her? I don't play Xiaoyu, but if someone could maybe go over some of her key moves or something I should watch out for?
All I've gotten from this thread is find something that hits her from AoP, punish her during BT/AOP, but that's what I've been doing. I can't seem to skew the risk-reward to my favor, when she's always flipping around and waiting for me to go in and attack her.
well I main Xiaoyu and Jun
always throw break with 1+2 against her, that's her command grab that leads into the combo, eating any other throw is no big deal but you don't want her to land that grab, she can get massive damage of it
I see. What's her main moves I should look out for?
Anything you generally use in your game-plan? Or holes I should be looking out for?
What's the best thing I can do against her in heat? Paul's heat-drive isn't nearly as scary when he's on the defensive. Is armor crush any good against her?
What are some of her weaknesses as a character? What is she generally strong at and what does she doesn't have that other characters can abuse against her? Can you even whiff punish Xiaoyu?
What am I to expect out of Xiaoyu when I fight against her? Aside from AoP/BT? What is the best options against BT mix-up?
I can explain some of her stuff, if she enters AOP after she is left in full crouch state its like she is doing AOP d so be aware of that. She is also weak to sidestep/sidewalk left, so sidestep left/block or sidewalk left but watch out for her f+4 (high homing move +1 on block, gives a guaranteed b+4,1 on hit), d/b+2 (low, -8 on block, tracks right) b+4 (mid and tracks to her weak side but is -11 on block but has an extension b+4,1 which is -14 on block), d+1 (another mid which has good tracking and leaves her in crouch state) and her b+1+2 (i15 mid launcher with good tracking, -13 on block).
Xiaoyu players will usually abuse her Hypnotist stance and she can manually enter the stance by pressing u/b+1+2 or d/b+1+2 but she can't block while using it and she needs to do two steps to get a scary mixup if she is not in heat mode. She can also enter the stance after these moves:
1,d+2,b (-2 on block)
f+2,1,b (0 on block)
AOP 1,b (-2 on block)
RDS 2,1,b or FC 3,2,1,b (-2 on block)
f,F+4 (+9 on block)
While heat RDS 2+3 (+19 on block)
when she is minus on block i16 moves will trade with her fastest move i14, HYP 4 so you can interrupt all her options with ~i15 mids. Don't go for jabs because HYP 3 goes under highs. She also automatically enters HYP after f,F+4 which is +9 on block, good range but is a high and is pretty linear, and after Heat RDS 2+3 which is a mid that is +19 on block so there's not much you can do about it, you have to take the mixup you either stand block HYP 2 (which will leave her at +5 on block) or low parry or block HYP 3 (which is -13 on block).
Just careful whenever she is in heat mode because her HYP stance becomes a menace, she doesnt need to do two steps while in Heat mode, one step and her HYP 3 will KND (only -13 on block) and she can get a full combo after HYP 2,F while Heat mode is activated (mid, +5 on block) and also does chip damage. She can also pressure you with Heat f+2,1,2 but you can interrupt in between the second hit and the best way to interrupt it is to activate your own Heat (power crushes and ssr also work but it doesnt beat all her options).
Whenever she does d/f+1 or any other safe moves which leaves her in RDS (when she is back turned) she can SSL or hold d/b to create space or cali roll or spin backward with RDS b+3+4 and evade your moves so watch out for that. She can also parry from BT. (example: her d/b+2 is -8 on block but it leaves her in RDS so she can use her parry which means if you don't have a fast shoulder or something that isn't parryable you won't get a guaranteed punish for it, all you can do is bait her parry and whiff punish her because she recovers extremely slowly. But if her parry works she will be at +6 on hit).
And ofc matchup knowledge, learning the frame data will help you to know when you can attack her and when you can't. Whenever she is at -6 on block her evasiveness becomes less effective. And watch out for her f+2+3 throw which leads to a full combo you can break it with 1+2 and it will break both her f+2+3 and u/f+1+2 throws and you can break all her other throws (1+3, 2+4, d/f+2+4) with 2. And whenever she ends her combo with u/f+4 into WS+4 if she is not off axis left the WS+4 won't hit if you don't move.
When you have to get up its best to hold back or just tech roll if you don't wanna get refloated but in some cases its best to stay grounded especially if your back is at the wall, just side roll and delay it, don't just side roll and then immediately get up otherwise you can eat the HYP mixup or any other mixup. In some cases, she can get your back and relaunch you so just be patient on the ground when you are left face down, feet towards or face up, feet away.
Don't abuse -14 moves against experienced Xiaoyu players because she can get an easy punish with standing 3 which leads to a full combo, unless the move you are using has lots of pushback or some weird evasive properties. AOP 1+2 is a safe mid counter-hit launcher, long range, she is only -1 on block which allows her to use her evasion/movement so you can't really mash jabs after it and she can also stop you with a magic 4 if you use a slow move (slower than i12). If she attempts ssr~aop or just aop after it I'd recommend using a fast mid homing or a fast mid or low that tracks to the right side (Lili's standing 3 is a good example, its a fast mid that tracks right), if you don't have any of these you can block or backdash or ssl~block or use your power crush or Heat.
She suffers punishing moves with huge pushbacks (like for example Asuka's b+3 she can't consistently launch punish it because its range dependent, the best she gets is f,F+3 for max range or f,F+2,1 mid range or dash standing 3 mid/close range but its hard to time it properly in a real match) and she lacks a i15 WS punisher.
Keep in mind that Xiaoyu has a small body size, some combos might drop because of it.
I'd recommend watching high level play against Xiaoyu maybe that'd help you learn what to do vs her or what moves you should be using or just get an idea about the character. But this character is painful to fight against... she can just steal your turn whenever she wants and get away with it and abuse the heat system. They need to do something about the new heat system.. if they don't then they should nerf Xiaoyu's f+2,1,2 while heat, that string shouldn't do so much damage.
Hopefully, this helps.
The only thing you can do right now is to find a mid that doesn't get crushed constantly and when you have your turn don't let her play. This is near impossible but you have to try.
Patience vs xiaoyu is dead because this game punishes you for defensive play.
Try not to press even if she's like -6, she can still steal at such a massive disadvantage.
Truth be told, the way the game works and how she is currently, there is no real good way to play vs her.
You can't take your plus frames and she has a broken mixup with her hyp stance. And even if you guess right, you get almost no reward or worst case she steals your turn again and you eat a full combo.
Luckily, xiaoyu players are easily the worst overall players of any character. Most of your unsafe moves will be safe vs them because they can't punish.
If you find a good flowchart vs them that works, they will never adapt to it, cuz they're not paying attention to how you play, and therefore adaption is impossible.
And if they happen to have a bad habit that is abuseable, it's a free win since they can't stop doing their bad habit to save their life.
Don't try to throw them though. They can't break throws but they will mash AOP so much, you will just get launched.
You can beat a ferrari with a beatle because the driver is bad.
Good luck.
Wow, sorry but I couldn't disagree more on pretty much everything you said and found sweeping generalizations on Xiaoyu players quite excessive to stay polite. But that is a forum, we are happy to have different opinions, that is the place for it.
But honestly, at least it is the complete opposite of my experience... I don't play her in T8 but top level players like Anakin and several others put Xiaoyu as one of the most difficult characters to master for a reason... If anything Xiaoyu players are among the most skilled i've met online with Yoshimitsu, Bryan, Nina, Lee, Kazuya, Steve or Leo players for instance, that is just my experience though.
For Hyp stance, it is very strong for sure but she cannot block there, you can hopkick some of her replies for example. Spamming AOP carelessly will get Xiaoyu nowhere, it is not a magic move or that simple even if the move is too evasive atm and could/should be nerfed when pressing down during AOP (with very tight timing) but overall Xiaoyu has to work hard with her movements to achieve results against competent players.
Her identity is whiff punish above all, she cannot just pressure at 0 range in your face like some chars can, she has a deep moveset, short range low/avg damage baby pokes, she is steppable quite a bit, you need good matchup culture with her and her fast gameplay execution is not the easiest.
As for plus frames, of course you should press your advantage.. like against any other character.. she has no miracle moves faster than 10 frames, and you have armored moves, you have movement (ie side stepping, back dashing whiff punish), you have CH, throws can counter hit, you have parries etc.. there are always options.. If what you would say would be true, she would win most tournaments so far but it is not the case... like at all.. in fact her tournament results since 2-3 months are not particularly good compared to many other chars ( Azucena, Dragunov, King, Feng etc.) .
Maybe you are talking about green ranks Xiaoyu? or watched too many TMM videos? But even then you cannot put everyone in the same basket honestly, no offence but if I say that this character or that one is only played by incompetent idiots, how wise does it sound? But of course she is very strong in good hands, she is top 10 for sure and annoying to play against ( unpredictable, excellent 50-50s, good frames on block, evasive), there is no doubt about that.
But I would say to beat a Ferrari you first need to have your driving license... know how to drive a sport car and the race track (strong matchup knowledge; having played Xioayu yourself for instance to know her weaknesses better) and without assuming that you are a better driver than everyone else or that all the tracks are perfectly straight IMO :)