Chip Damage, Heat Burst, Dash, and Smash, also "Aggressive"

[Grudgethrower]

Hello, back again with a set of question/s. These may have been asked several times now since it was announced and debut of the game and got quite a hefty reception. And it seems a lot of the players still don't very much like it. Granted, patches have been made but some of the issues that players are having trouble with, whether getting used to or getting around to is still there and complaints seems to pile more than getting reduced.

Skill issue? Not really and I don't think so at all. I'm no fighting game player. I'm just an observer and nothing else. Still, the fact that some of these are still in the game and most of it can be, theoretically fixed with little to no issues is quite irksome in my opinion. To the point I'm starting to question if Tekken 8 is worth getting or even is still the Tekken that me and countless people around the world knew as it is and was.

I get it, new game = new stuff, but I think these were overtuned. There were clearly thoughts put behind them—I can see the intention—but it feels like they overshot their target by using something unconventional instead of refining or evolving what already worked. It’s like they were aiming for innovation but ended up pushing the mechanics too far, creating an experience that feels less balanced or cohesive than it could have been.

Sometimes, sticking closer to the core principles of what makes the gameplay enjoyable and adding depth through subtle tweaks can achieve better results than introducing radically new elements that risk throwing off the overall balance. It’s not that the new features are inherently bad, but they might have been more effective with a more grounded approach.

Nevertheless, I'm just gonna put some question/s here and there, give my thoughts and feel free to answer them. Actually I should put this on reddit or on X but I'll start here.

Also, not gonna discuss character specific issue this is more on the universal mechanic in T8 and what does it do. Though feel free to add them to enhance certain points.

1. (Should) Remove Chip Damage
- This has been like the main issue ever since this was implemented. (Almost) Everyone disliked it. Chip damage in a game like Tekken is unheard off, considering in past games there was no such thing that could do that. Granted, there are some broken stuff in past Tekken but this (Chip Damage) is arguably the most unbalanced mechanic in a Tekken game.
- You could argue that Chip damage should only be in Heat Mode BUT I think characters being able to access to move exclusively in Heat Mode is likely more than enough honestly. Add anything else or make it do somethin' else might cause a lot of players be more overwhelmed as it is.
- Also, I'm sure anyone don't want their health getting depleted by just simply blocking, a defensive technique no less, from a move that is safe or whatnot over 'n over again until you have a pixel of life left and you have like a lot of recoverable health.

1.1 Gray Health Bar
- Tied to the Chip Damage thingy. They could've just make this as a standalone feature where if, for example a combo takes about 35-40% life, a portion of that becomes GREY HEALTH, allowing players to recover some of that health. If players dying or matches ending too quickly was an issue because damage was too high in some characters or the entire roster in general this would be the solution.
- In turn, however, makes pokes or lows much stronger because the damage of those moves deal are one instance.
- I'm aware regular combos and low parry combos do this, but I think this shouldn't be tied with Chip Damage. Forcing someone's hand is aggressive in its own way, and adding Chip Damage to the mix feels excessive.

2. Heat Smash or Rage Drive
- Do you want Rage Drive to return? Do you want Heat Smash to be removed?
- The way I see it, people seems to use Heat Smash way too haphazardly and some of them are just barely if not punishable at all aside from the low-hitting heat smash. Head empty just (heat) smash.
- I wish I was Tekken player but in all the times watching Tekken 7 videos, I can't recall if there was (if any) a particular Rage Drive that starts with a low...
- It was weird that when this particular mechanic was announced, Heat Smash was referred as like the Rage Drive in Tekken 8 which I don't think it is to be honest.

3. Heat Burst and Heat Dash: Balanced or not?
- Likely these two are the ,quote on quote, balanced mechanic in Tekken 8. Heat Burst is like your combo-breaker and easy-mode combo extender. Heat Dash makes specific moves safe and when done in a combo gives you exceptional wall carry.
- Having these two tied with Heat is okay in my opinion 'cause these are a one time usage per round and have their specific uses Heat Smash is also like that; it has a use but it is quite blunt and not a difficult one to pull off too, hence a lot of players just casually throw it out.
- Also, the ability to regenerate heat on certain characters should not be a thing in the game. I get it, you want to utilize all the moves your character has that is exclusive in heat in such a short time, that's fine. But, isn't this supposed to be temporary? Why would you give certain characters the ability to generate heat, enabling it to last longer than any of the ones in the game and this is a universal mechanic.

4. Aggressive Gameplay
- Buddy. I don't want to berate or talk smack to the developers, Harada or anyone responsible in making this game in particular but I think they got little bit too aggressive on their own when they were making this game. Characters that were like unpopular or were not used much in Tekken 7 due to various factors got a huge upgrade and some of those were unfortunately resulted them being hated or disliked. Those characters definitely got more popular no doubt but for the wrong reasons.
- Throws beings homing at first was outright dumb. Counter-hit throws is still on the mixed side. They wanted see throws being utilized, they got it. Although I can't tell whether throws getting a counterhit property made them viable or not. Breaking throws is essential and not everyone is on-point with that.
- Heat Smash being (I think) a one hit button and relatively safe and only handful that are actually punishable.
- Rage Arts not being launch punishable is quite odd. I believe you can punish a rage art but not a very substantial one.
- The implementation of the Chip Damage is out of left field and frankly not something Tekken has ever had in previous installments.
- "The Best Offense is a Good Defense". I believe it can be applicable here in Tekken 8 but a lot of seems to see more "unga bunga" in this game than there is of defense. There's clearly defensive tools that anyone can execute given enough time, patience and practice.
- Aggressiveness and/or Defense solely relies on a player's playstyle.
- The implementation of a Modern Control scheme in Tekken 8 is very, very dumb in my opinion. I'm no fighting game player, mind you, but this takes away the experience why fighting games are appealing in the first place.

I think that's it. I'll add some more if there somethings I had missed or just didn't thought off at all.

[Love'li-land]

Originally posted by E1770:

I'm no fighting game player. I'm just an observer and nothing else.

Exactly why you shouldn't have even made this thread.
You don't know what you are talking about.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Love'li-land:

Originally posted by E1770:

I'm no fighting game player. I'm just an observer and nothing else.

Exactly why you shouldn't have even made this thread.
You don't know what you are talking about.

He doesn't know what he talking about but maybe you share your knowledge on his positions instead? If you DO have this knowledge.

[Grudgethrower]

Originally posted by Love'li-land:

Originally posted by E1770:

I'm no fighting game player. I'm just an observer and nothing else.

Exactly why you shouldn't have even made this thread.
You don't know what you are talking about.

Exactly why you shouldn't have even made this thread.
You don't know what you are talking about. [/quote]

Eh, that's just how it is, naturally. As to why I made this thread in the first place is just simply for my own curiosity.

Whether or not I have to be fighting game player myself in order to question this sort of thing is up to my own volition. I do not make the rules how I or anyone should ask a question regarding on a subject or matter I am curious or interested about; that is just how curiosity works.

And I don't remember ever needing a specific requirement to ask a question, whether that's something specific or not from a foreign subject. Even if fully knowing that there's no way in hell that I'll be able to play a fighting game in my life before dying is a reality I'm willing to accept and not complain about.

"You don't know what you're talking about"—you’re right, sometimes I ask questions about things I have little knowledge of because I’m genuinely curious. While my understanding of fighting games and Tekken is general and not extensive, it’s enough for me to keep up as a viewer.

What I had iterated here is too specific? Yes, you may think that and assumed that is a perspective of some casual or veteran player and I will apologize for that for not being iterate enough from the start.

The reason I said "I'm no fighting game player and just an observer" is letting you know that whatever I written in this thread, you should take it a grain of salt. Sure, it can be a bunch of nonsense coming from an "outsider" like me who has no hands-on experience, but has a general understanding of what things do and what doesn't yet willing to express a query, a question that is very much beyond their scope of knowledge and just wanting to know the answer.

I admit, the way I’ve written this thread may come across as casual to the point of sounding like a player, and I apologize for that.

"Exactly why you shouldn't have even made this thread" - buddy, not to sound rude, and I already stated this, but anyone has ability to ask a question. That's a fact. Try telling that to every player, casual/newcomer or veteran in this game and not appear like an a-hole or b'tch or crybaby everytime they complain about like almost everything in this game or any other game that is difficult and requires thinking.

[Sirlion]

You dont own the game, you're not a fg player by own admission, therefore there is no point in answering. You should have at least a basic background in the scene or have made the rounds a few times to get acquainted with Tekken's basic controls, legacy mechanics and the differences with the older titles. T8 is such a massive departure that you wouldnt understand it if you didnt experience it first hand. And fgs are extremely different from one another, you cant see it as a general talk thing. It's bound to be specific. But again, you do not have context, so its pointless to discuss it.

[Grudgethrower]

Originally posted by Sirlion:

You dont own the game, you're not a fg player by own admission, therefore there is no point in answering. You should have at least a basic background in the scene or have made the rounds a few times to get acquainted with Tekken's basic controls, legacy mechanics and the differences with the older titles. T8 is such a massive departure that you wouldnt understand it if you didnt experience it first hand. And fgs are extremely different from one another, you cant see it as a general talk thing. It's bound to be specific. But again, you do not have context, so its pointless to discuss it.

Understandable. I'd wish I can say more but I'm just gonna nod and lest my own hand forcibly rip my own jugular, mouth and voice box apart and never type or speak again for somethin' so stupid and take it as you saying not wanting to answer. That's fine.

I did play Tekken 5, 6, Tag 1, Soul Calibur: Broken Destiny, Samurai Shodown back in the PSP days.

I do own Tekken 7 bought it just for the heck of it since it was on sale. Didn't play much. My internet is horrendous so the playtime I had was just in practice mode and doing the combos. Using keyboard. There was an arcade that has T7, so I tried playing it. My hands are just as worthless. Call me names for giving up so easily but I'm just gonna stay contented with just watching.

As much I want to play. I'll just look elsewhere. I'm just piece of garbage to anyone anyway.

[pablonesmrtelny]

If in doubt - play drag
(Everything is better than talk about something you dont understand)

[Sirlion]

Originally posted by E1770:

Originally posted by Sirlion:

You dont own the game, you're not a fg player by own admission, therefore there is no point in answering. You should have at least a basic background in the scene or have made the rounds a few times to get acquainted with Tekken's basic controls, legacy mechanics and the differences with the older titles. T8 is such a massive departure that you wouldnt understand it if you didnt experience it first hand. And fgs are extremely different from one another, you cant see it as a general talk thing. It's bound to be specific. But again, you do not have context, so its pointless to discuss it.

Understandable. I'd wish I can say more but I'm just gonna nod and lest my own hand forcibly rip my own jugular, mouth and voice box apart and never type or speak again for somethin' so stupid and take it as you saying not wanting to answer. That's fine.

LMAO. You come in here saying you dont understand this ♥♥♥♥ and then proceed to state your own opinions about said things you dont understand.
It's like me going into a pastry shop and criticizing the way confectionery is being prepared.
No please go ahead start talking about character specific things I wanna hear all about it.

[FerSantander]

I have ended up ignoring heat.., more or less I mean (it is hard lol,specially against Feng and others), but guard damage to me, in tekken..., ahem. And I have always played from the beginning t1,2, 3 etc etc with it activated in solo mode, always, but in 1on1 against people?, no, big no. That's for Mortal Kombat

[Weedababzz]

U rly think someone need to play 30 years at tekken for see that the game is ♥♥♥♥ actually?

[Weedababzz]

Stop think u all have the truth bcs u played 30 years at a game who have never been balance

[FerSantander]

Originally posted by Weedababzz:

U rly think someone need to play 30 years at tekken for see that the game is ♥♥♥♥ actually?

Originally posted by Weedababzz:

Stop think u all have the truth bcs u played 30 years at a game who have never been balance

It's going to take you 30 years to improve that grammar.

[JON.BKK]

Ignore the white knights, cry babies and overlord fanboys. As a fan and player since Tekken 2, I agree with most of your stuff and I appreciate your time to write your opinion.

Let me reiterate the elephant in the room that has been looming since its inception: The game is overly aggressive, as in "UFC style" punch your opponent on the ground till the ref breaks you up kinda way. I know I keep making this reference, because it is true.

It is a mashfest of boom-boom, done, round over without much "depth". The game rewards aggressive attacks, in combination with combos, extended with heat actions, leaving almost no room for "proper defense" or versatile defense options. No such things really until you get smashed to the wall like a pig.

That is my main critique. Who attacks first and lands the hit, as well as guesses the next moves of the opponent right, wins - more or less.

The other peculiar issue I have is the subpar content of the game. Let me be clear, I don't have a problem with monetization per say. I have a problem with the QUALITY and type of content:

- Rewashed and reused items from past titles, i.e Tekken 7 etc?!
- Poor Battle/Season Pass!!!
- The thing is, if you plan to make a store and sell stuff, why not put in things that people demand in order to increase sales?!?!??!
- We got limited LEGACY costumes. Where are NEW-NEW costumes, exclusively made for in T8?? Excluding the default costumes of course
- And another elephant in the room, wtf, staple characters who had been in the roster since decades like EDDY, are released as a DLC?!??! I just question the thought process. Look, as a fan, I bought it regardless but not really with a happy smile.

What would I expect with a DLC? A PROPER DLC, quality DLC with proper items, such as

EXCLUSIVE costumes, funky fighters like OGRE, Roger, someone new?? And so on and so on....

- Heihachi coming back. Hmm ok
- Lidia is back too. She came as a DLC in T7 and comes back as a DLC in T8. I play and study her right now
- The only thing that I really, really look forward to in this year's DLC is FAHKUMRAM. For the mother of love, let it be him and not some random dude. LOL

Originally posted by E1770:

Hello, back again with a set of question/s. These may have been asked several times now since it was announced and debut of the game and got quite a hefty reception. And it seems a lot of the players still don't very much like it. Granted, patches have been made but some of the issues that players are having trouble with, whether getting used to or getting around to is still there and complaints seems to pile more than getting reduced.

Skill issue? Not really and I don't think so at all. I'm no fighting game player. I'm just an observer and nothing else. Still, the fact that some of these are still in the game and most of it can be, theoretically fixed with little to no issues is quite irksome in my opinion. To the point I'm starting to question if Tekken 8 is worth getting or even is still the Tekken that me and countless people around the world knew as it is and was.

I get it, new game = new stuff, but I think these were overtuned. There were clearly thoughts put behind them—I can see the intention—but it feels like they overshot their target by using something unconventional instead of refining or evolving what already worked. It’s like they were aiming for innovation but ended up pushing the mechanics too far, creating an experience that feels less balanced or cohesive than it could have been.

Sometimes, sticking closer to the core principles of what makes the gameplay enjoyable and adding depth through subtle tweaks can achieve better results than introducing radically new elements that risk throwing off the overall balance. It’s not that the new features are inherently bad, but they might have been more effective with a more grounded approach.

Nevertheless, I'm just gonna put some question/s here and there, give my thoughts and feel free to answer them. Actually I should put this on reddit or on X but I'll start here.

Also, not gonna discuss character specific issue this is more on the universal mechanic in T8 and what does it do. Though feel free to add them to enhance certain points.

1. (Should) Remove Chip Damage
- This has been like the main issue ever since this was implemented. (Almost) Everyone disliked it. Chip damage in a game like Tekken is unheard off, considering in past games there was no such thing that could do that. Granted, there are some broken stuff in past Tekken but this (Chip Damage) is arguably the most unbalanced mechanic in a Tekken game.
- You could argue that Chip damage should only be in Heat Mode BUT I think characters being able to access to move exclusively in Heat Mode is likely more than enough honestly. Add anything else or make it do somethin' else might cause a lot of players be more overwhelmed as it is.
- Also, I'm sure anyone don't want their health getting depleted by just simply blocking, a defensive technique no less, from a move that is safe or whatnot over 'n over again until you have a pixel of life left and you have like a lot of recoverable health.

1.1 Gray Health Bar
- Tied to the Chip Damage thingy. They could've just make this as a standalone feature where if, for example a combo takes about 35-40% life, a portion of that becomes GREY HEALTH, allowing players to recover some of that health. If players dying or matches ending too quickly was an issue because damage was too high in some characters or the entire roster in general this would be the solution.
- In turn, however, makes pokes or lows much stronger because the damage of those moves deal are one instance.
- I'm aware regular combos and low parry combos do this, but I think this shouldn't be tied with Chip Damage. Forcing someone's hand is aggressive in its own way, and adding Chip Damage to the mix feels excessive.

2. Heat Smash or Rage Drive
- Do you want Rage Drive to return? Do you want Heat Smash to be removed?
- The way I see it, people seems to use Heat Smash way too haphazardly and some of them are just barely if not punishable at all aside from the low-hitting heat smash. Head empty just (heat) smash.
- I wish I was Tekken player but in all the times watching Tekken 7 videos, I can't recall if there was (if any) a particular Rage Drive that starts with a low...
- It was weird that when this particular mechanic was announced, Heat Smash was referred as like the Rage Drive in Tekken 8 which I don't think it is to be honest.

3. Heat Burst and Heat Dash: Balanced or not?
- Likely these two are the ,quote on quote, balanced mechanic in Tekken 8. Heat Burst is like your combo-breaker and easy-mode combo extender. Heat Dash makes specific moves safe and when done in a combo gives you exceptional wall carry.
- Having these two tied with Heat is okay in my opinion 'cause these are a one time usage per round and have their specific uses Heat Smash is also like that; it has a use but it is quite blunt and not a difficult one to pull off too, hence a lot of players just casually throw it out.
- Also, the ability to regenerate heat on certain characters should not be a thing in the game. I get it, you want to utilize all the moves your character has that is exclusive in heat in such a short time, that's fine. But, isn't this supposed to be temporary? Why would you give certain characters the ability to generate heat, enabling it to last longer than any of the ones in the game and this is a universal mechanic.

4. Aggressive Gameplay
- Buddy. I don't want to berate or talk smack to the developers, Harada or anyone responsible in making this game in particular but I think they got little bit too aggressive on their own when they were making this game. Characters that were like unpopular or were not used much in Tekken 7 due to various factors got a huge upgrade and some of those were unfortunately resulted them being hated or disliked. Those characters definitely got more popular no doubt but for the wrong reasons.
- Throws beings homing at first was outright dumb. Counter-hit throws is still on the mixed side. They wanted see throws being utilized, they got it. Although I can't tell whether throws getting a counterhit property made them viable or not. Breaking throws is essential and not everyone is on-point with that.
- Heat Smash being (I think) a one hit button and relatively safe and only handful that are actually punishable.
- Rage Arts not being launch punishable is quite odd. I believe you can punish a rage art but not a very substantial one.
- The implementation of the Chip Damage is out of left field and frankly not something Tekken has ever had in previous installments.
- "The Best Offense is a Good Defense". I believe it can be applicable here in Tekken 8 but a lot of seems to see more "unga bunga" in this game than there is of defense. There's clearly defensive tools that anyone can execute given enough time, patience and practice.
- Aggressiveness and/or Defense solely relies on a player's playstyle.
- The implementation of a Modern Control scheme in Tekken 8 is very, very dumb in my opinion. I'm no fighting game player, mind you, but this takes away the experience why fighting games are appealing in the first place.

I think that's it. I'll add some more if there somethings I had missed or just didn't thought off at all.