Traits are making players predictable

[Backburner]

Here are some:

attack frequency - using spam attacks such a king's spam low kick
retaliation - use of rage art
ambition - a good fighter against higher ranked players
heavy damage - long combos
versatility - use of different combos and moves
block, evasion, throw escape need no explanation.

Some of them are really vague - fairness, respect, fighting spirit, concentration, composure...

So, every time I see a guy with retaliation, I get ready for the heavy usage of rage art, and in that case, completely nullifies the opponent's playing style. If you see attack frequency, you will get yourself ready for spam attacks. And so on and so forth. This system completely ruins the surprise element for both sides. I am not sure if it could be changed, or removed from the game. Maybe it would be better to see enemy's traits only after the match is completely finished.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

correct

One of the more fun things is to just walk up to someone risk a low (low damage meh) (provided its not a sweep) and just use armor on them if they attack, then back up with a backstep and bait them into you.

So now their defense and offense is on high; then you read their next move wait for the high in the mix up, and then special grab them.
Then back up and go for a safe low and then fast mid follow up.
It usually makes them pretty aggressive where then you just match openings with a lot of speed to bait the heat and rageart's and of course follow it up with mostly neutral defense.

Granted attack frequency just means attacks fast.
it doesn't always mean spam.
Retaliation can also mean lots of counter hits
Ambition can also just mean able to keep things equal as far as health

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

correct

One of the more fun things is to just walk up to someone risk a low (low damage meh) (provided its not a sweep) and just use armor on them if they attack, then back up with a backstep and bait them into you.

So now their defense and offense is on high; then you read their next move wait for the high in the mix up, and then special grab them.
Then back up and go for a safe low and then fast mid follow up.
It usually makes them pretty aggressive where then you just match openings with a lot of speed to bait the heat and rageart's and of course follow it up with mostly neutral defense.

Granted attack frequency just means attacks fast.
it doesn't always mean spam.
Retaliation can also mean lots of counter hits
Ambition can also just mean able to keep things equal as far as health

Is this really how you play?

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

correct

One of the more fun things is to just walk up to someone risk a low (low damage meh) (provided its not a sweep) and just use armor on them if they attack, then back up with a backstep and bait them into you.

So now their defense and offense is on high; then you read their next move wait for the high in the mix up, and then special grab them.
Then back up and go for a safe low and then fast mid follow up.
It usually makes them pretty aggressive where then you just match openings with a lot of speed to bait the heat and rageart's and of course follow it up with mostly neutral defense.

Granted attack frequency just means attacks fast.
it doesn't always mean spam.
Retaliation can also mean lots of counter hits
Ambition can also just mean able to keep things equal as far as health

Is this really how you play?

Well since you asked?

It works for people who play COD with just reaction time when you see a head.

if Tekken is just rock paper scissors, then things are simplified like example devil kazuya's or kazuya's EWGF which is a fast high uppercut which I find is defeated by
Kaz's plain ol 2 or b4 or d3..
As for standard grabs you can jab them with 1 if fast enough or ss them if far enough away.

As for defense I stand there and defend, it is optimal defense at range, the rest is waiting for the mash of the opponent, or their panic, or the predictable pattern.

Defense beats defense, so back step, or into crouch into fuzzy guard, & bait the hit and trigger (pressure) the player to attack limiting options.

if the opponent likes to juggle; microstep off center just before the hit to get that added side roll opportunity & or distance.

if wall splat, wait the second hit then use the iframes of the roll or cancel the wall splat early on impact with guard then wait the first hit instead and roll out safely.


the rest is let them get very little reads leading them in.

My problem players are the ones randomly mashing as I have no way to read and keep, limiting me to training offensive openings.



But I doubt any of that made any sense since it didn't add numbers and letters like some formula my apologies.
Summary
Longer match = more to absorb and learn
more to absorb = more to take for different character use.

Defense rules are universal, bears and jack have more requirements due to size differences.

My playstyle more comes from SC
SCIII a SCV and SCVI were much faster than Tekken Tekken seems faster because its up close. Taki was by far faster and less predictable than that unsee-able this that.

Edited for correction vs confusion.

A really important differentiation between ‘reading’ and ‘reacting’ exists. The research shows that for one to ‘perceive’ or someone to ‘perceive and then act’ they use different pathways through the eyes and brain.

This has significant implications for training, as for example, watching sport to learn decisions doesn’t activate the same physiological effects as actually making decisions while physically moving.

This is often why the ‘armchair expert’ or worse ‘analytics guy’ finds it weird that athletes don’t learn patterns like they do. It’s because actually doing something uses a different method.

In terms of reading and reacting, in all circumstances we gather information from the environment to make our decisions (or make an action).

This again, is a continuous and subconscious process. The ‘reacting’ usually refers to a situation in which time is more limited, and therefore less information is gathered before we act. The better athletes who ‘react’ better are usually those that gather the most important information in that short time.

For example, they know where to look for the best cues. Boxing is a good example where their eyes pick up information from the opponents hips or torso around which punch is coming, as opposed to the poorer ‘reactors’ who take information from the glove or arm.

Back to the topic at hand

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by Backburner:

Here are some:

attack frequency - using spam attacks such a king's spam low kick
retaliation - use of rage art
ambition - a good fighter against higher ranked players
heavy damage - long combos
versatility - use of different combos and moves
block, evasion, throw escape need no explanation.

Some of them are really vague - fairness, respect, fighting spirit, concentration, composure...

So, every time I see a guy with retaliation, I get ready for the heavy usage of rage art, and in that case, completely nullifies the opponent's playing style. If you see attack frequency, you will get yourself ready for spam attacks. And so on and so forth. This system completely ruins the surprise element for both sides. I am not sure if it could be changed, or removed from the game. Maybe it would be better to see enemy's traits only after the match is completely finished.

note as of now there are no official sources for trait descriptions for t7 or t8

Composure is defense and offense are balanced

Fairness means not trying to kill you instantly and repeatedly

fighting spirit is aggressive but well rounded

Concentration means patient and hyper focused

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

Is this really how you play?

Works for people who play COD with just reaction time when you see a head.

if its just rock paper scissors then things are simplified like a PEWGF or fast high is defeated by Kaz's 2 or b4 or d3 as for grabs you can jab them with 1 if fast enough or ss them if far enough.

stand there and defend is optimal defense at range the rest is waiting for the mash, panic, or the predictable.

defense beats defense, so back step into crouch into fuzzy guard bait the hit and trigger the player to attack limiting options.

if they like to juggle, microstep off center just before the hit to get that added side roll opportunity or distance.

if wall splat wait the second hit then use the iframes of the roll or cancel the wall splat early on impact wait the first hit instead and roll out safely.


the rest is let them get very little reads leading them in.

the problem players are the ones randomly mashing as I have no way to read and keep up outside of training offensive openings.



but I doubt any of that made any sense since it didn't add numbers and letters like some formula.

Longer match = more to absorb
more to absorb = more to take for different character.
Defense rules are universal, bears and jack have more requirements due to size.

SCIII a SCV and SCVI were much faster than Tekken Tekken seems faster because its up close. Taki was by far faster and less predictable than that unsee-able this that.

if its just rock paper scissors then things are simplified like a PEWGF or fast high is defeated by Kaz's 2 or b4 or d3 as for grabs you can jab them with 1 if fast enough or ss them if far enough.

Are you stating you are avoiding PEWGF with a 2 jab? How? PEWGF is specifically after gutpunch? If gutpunch lands you then PEWGF if it is correct- it will launch them.

I think your notation might be incorrect?

Do you have video or a better explanation for what you mean? Because it sounds like you are sticking out a 2 jab to stop EWGF instead? PEWGF is named for a very specific situation.

stand there and defend is optimal defense at range the rest is waiting for the mash, panic, or the predictable.

This is not optimal in Tekken 8? Are you sure this is what you meant? This game is much more offensive-oriented. Just standing around is not necessarily the optimal choice- especially for Kazuya.

if they like to juggle, microstep off center just before the hit to get that added side roll opportunity or distance.

This appears to be a claim that you are sidestepping launchers on reaction? How? Please explain? Why would you let the move hit you and worry about oki or wake-up if you already know it's coming? Just block it and punish if the launcher is punishable? How do you react to a move like a generic df2? Source?

I have never heard of players "reacting" to a launcher and then microstepping and letting it hit them? Why would anyone do this?

if wall splat wait the second hit then use the iframes of the roll or cancel the wall splat early on impact wait the first hit instead and roll out safely.

What is the notation for what you are trying to explain? Please use notation- as it is universally recognized and helps us clarify what it is you are actually doing. When you don't utilize notation- it makes it very difficult for any of us to follow what you are trying to explain. It's a good-faith gesture to use the universal notation.

What second hit? What string are you using with Kaz at the wall? iFrames from roll? Which one? What does "cancelling the wallsplat early on impact" mean?

The Prowess matchmaking traits can be so confusing that honestly- many players have given up on ranked and play quick match instead. If you do have the fully deciphered list of Traits in the Tekken Prowess system please share- because all we have to go on is player speculation.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

if its just rock paper scissors then things are simplified like a PEWGF or fast high is defeated by Kaz's 2 or b4 or d3 as for grabs you can jab them with 1 if fast enough or ss them if far enough.

Are you stating you are avoiding PEWGF with a 2 jab? How? PEWGF is specifically after gutpunch? If gutpunch lands you then PEWGF if it is correct- it will launch them.

I think your notation might be incorrect?

Do you have video or a better explanation for what you mean? Because it sounds like you are sticking out a 2 jab to stop EWGF instead? PEWGF is named for a very specific situation.

stand there and defend is optimal defense at range the rest is waiting for the mash, panic, or the predictable.

This is not optimal in Tekken 8? Are you sure this is what you meant? This game is much more offensive-oriented. Just standing around is not necessarily the optimal choice- especially for Kazuya.

if they like to juggle, microstep off center just before the hit to get that added side roll opportunity or distance.

This appears to be a claim that you are sidestepping launchers on reaction? How? Please explain? Why would you let the move hit you and worry about oki or wake-up if you already know it's coming? Just block it and punish if the launcher is punishable? How do you react to a move like a generic df2? Source?

I have never heard of players "reacting" to a launcher and then microstepping and letting it hit them? Why would anyone do this?

if wall splat wait the second hit then use the iframes of the roll or cancel the wall splat early on impact wait the first hit instead and roll out safely.

What is the notation for what you are trying to explain? Please use notation- as it is universally recognized and helps us clarify what it is you are actually doing. When you don't utilize notation- it makes it very difficult for any of us to follow what you are trying to explain. It's a good-faith gesture to use the universal notation.

What second hit? What string are you using with Kaz at the wall? iFrames from roll? Which one? What does "cancelling the wallsplat early on impact" mean?

The Prowess matchmaking traits can be so confusing that honestly- many players have given up on ranked and play quick match instead. If you do have the fully deciphered list of Traits in the Tekken Prowess system please share- because all we have to go on is player speculation.

You are not a fan of labbing are you?

Set Kazuya to do PEWGF
then use kazuya to press 2.

I think you may have not read my whole post. PEWGF is named because it is frame-perfect after gutpunch specifically.

If you mean to execute an open Electric in neutral at range 0 or 1... Sure you can jab it... But it is not a reactionary thing? Why are you not using the correct notation? This is not helpful to the discussion or for anyone reading these posts- as the information you are providing is incorrect.

Please provide notation fro what you are trying to explain or links to sources.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

You would need to anticipate the Electric to jab it. You will not be able to jab once you "see" the move?

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

Is this officially from Namco though? If not- you are simply plucking these from a dictionary... Please link to the official statement.

Did namco ever release what those meanings meant for t7?

No. That's why I asked for a link of your sources?


If you don't have a source just say so. But many players have been looking for an official source for months now.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

You would need to anticipate the Electric to jab it. You will not be able to jab once you "see" the move?

lol
play it back frame by frame there is a 1-2 frame delay of a Big dark visual tell of when to hit 2.

You're kidding right?

1-2 frame window? For you to react and jab? How?

This seems unrealistic and not in the realm of reality. Please post content and discussion that is factual and accurate to the topic. If you are not providing sources for your claims- it is derailment and toxic. This hurts others when you post incorrect or unrealistic "geese" for other players to chase.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

No. That's why I asked for a link of your sources?


If you don't have a source just say so. But many players have been looking for an official source for months now.

nope not even searching via 鉄拳8攻殻機動隊日本版ナムコ
Its not released .

Pretty sure its via definition otherwise there isn't a point to translate it in T7 & T8 without a detailed walk-through..

So if you do not have reputable and official sources- take those down. It's wrong.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Everything you will find online for the Prowess traits are simply speculation.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

I would suggest only posting if you know for a fact whatever it is you are discussing is true. This is not helpful.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

I would suggest only posting if you know for a fact whatever it is you are discussing is true. This is not helpful.

despite they never updated T7 ever to more than speculation..

despite PEWGF in game is f*df+2 and can also be delayed F*..df+2 and has 0 to do with ws2.. despite ws 2 is wr

lol

interjected Slang in gaming notation how its ruined the sport for everyone who is playing outside the FGC..

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

So if you do not have reputable and official sources- take those down. It's wrong.

and now we are gatekeeping since this topic is not official either..

How would anyone gatekeep by requesting you not to post false information?

That doesn't make any sense and is by definition derailment. Please, don't post incorrect terminology or notation, opinions as fact, or your thoughts on something if it is not backed up with sources. This is why all the fights and confusion stem from.

The accuracy of information matters 100%.

To think that is gatekeeping is odd.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

I would suggest only posting if you know for a fact whatever it is you are discussing is true. This is not helpful.

despite they never updated T7 ever to more than speculation..

despite PEWGF in game is f*df+2 and can also be delayed F*..df+2 and has 0 to do with ws2.. despite ws 2 is wr

lol

This is not true.

Just googled it:


"The Mist Step, since it's 3 commands instead of 4 and being just f,n,df, he can do Electrics one frame faster, allowing him to do things like the Perfect Electric Wind God Fist (PEWGF), a 1-frame combo starting with ws2 into EWGF for high damage. Reina can also perform the PEWGF by using her Wind Step.Feb 12, 2024


You are incorrect again. Please. Post correct information. This confuses new players.