Can someone please tell me why Azucena is considered so OP?

[An R Key5993]

Preface, I'm a new Tekken player, that being said I picked up Azucena before knowing anything about a tier list, then found out some consider her top 3 (at least before they nerfed her running 3,2), I'd say most people still consider her top 5 even today and clearly the devs believe so as well with more nerfs coming.

The thing is I just don't see it. I preface that I'm new because I'm sure there's things I'm missing but I feel a lot of what she "does" others do better and then some. Her combo possibilities all seem to be mid/high oriented, her stance is predictable and unsafe to many things (not meaning moves just like heat bursts and rage arts), her heat isn't that great, her CHs are good but nothing amazing.

I then see others with full combo potential with lows and mids, I see others with heat being something that essentially turns them into 90s tier arcade bosses.

I know this post seems rant-y but I really would like to learn. I watch God of Destruction tier Azucenas and don't see any moves I don't utilize, obviously my execution is much worse. I just don't know what to do?

If Red rank is just as far as I'm getting right now thats fine, I want to stick with her even if they nerf her more, I just enjoy her playstyle, but man I feel stuck.

[Pelikan]

You can read the patch notes 1.04, all the moves listed there were broken.

The devs said this in the patch notes : " Based on the overall direction of V1.04, adjustments were made to suppress the outstanding performance of certain moves. Additionally, since relying solely on low-risk pokes was overly effective, the performance of such moves has been toned down while enhancing the performance of moves related to special stances. "

To make it short, at the highest level between pro-players, she was completely busted due to a combination of insane pressure, +frames on block, very high damage for a fast hitter, evasiveness, very good lows and throw game.

Players like Ulsan, Mulgold, Kkokoma, even Arslan etc.. were abusing not only Wr3,2 but 2,1, df1,4 jail after wr3,2 and 1,1 for cheap/low risk overwhelming pressure. You basically only needed to use 4 moves mainly to make ATL finals with her.

Anyways, it is old news now. In a few days on May 8th, the new patch will be out and she will likely be out of the top 10. Some of the try hards at pro level already dropped her in the 4th ATL a few days ago.

Azucena will now be a balanced and strong char with extremely easy execution ( excellent beginner character to learn and rank up like Victor) and incentives to actually use her full moveset now.

Because gameplay wise, she will now be based on stance pressure ( like Leo or Lars) and trickery, using her built in evasiveness, speed and damage to good effect.

[Pelikan]

Here you have a more graphic and entertaining reply to your question :)

https://youtu.be/VORC0KpZGLQ?t=106

[Stübi Senpai]

Her while running move (3, 4 I think?) was extremely oppressive which was the main pain point. She's also a newcomer, and just like Victor, very well adjusted to the very aggressive style of play (Good mixups, a stance to punish people trying to take their turn back thoughtlessly, generally good lows).

Now that the WR has been nerfed I find her mostly fine, even if the average player still just mashes through her strings which is often boring.

[An R Key5993]

Originally posted by Stübi Senpai:

Her while running move (3, 4 I think?) was extremely oppressive which was the main pain point. She's also a newcomer, and just like Victor, very well adjusted to the very aggressive style of play (Good mixups, a stance to punish people trying to take their turn back thoughtlessly, generally good lows).

Now that the WR has been nerfed I find her mostly fine, even if the average player still just mashes through her strings which is often boring.

I can agree with all of this and definitely acknowledge she's a lower skill floor character, I guess I just wonder how much of her oppression (outside of a slight couple of strings) is her being actually OP or just a knowledge check. As a new player there are plenty of original characters that knowledge check me that veterans probably easily counter.

That all being said I don't want them to patch based on newbies opinions, I fully support buffing for the pro scene/top tier players, I'm just trying to understand (to be fair I haven't checked out that video just yet in the above comment).

[Stübi Senpai]

Originally posted by An R Key5993:

Originally posted by Stübi Senpai:

Her while running move (3, 4 I think?) was extremely oppressive which was the main pain point. She's also a newcomer, and just like Victor, very well adjusted to the very aggressive style of play (Good mixups, a stance to punish people trying to take their turn back thoughtlessly, generally good lows).

Now that the WR has been nerfed I find her mostly fine, even if the average player still just mashes through her strings which is often boring.

I can agree with all of this and definitely acknowledge she's a lower skill floor character, I guess I just wonder how much of her oppression (outside of a slight couple of strings) is her being actually OP or just a knowledge check. As a new player there are plenty of original characters that knowledge check me that veterans probably easily counter.

That all being said I don't want them to patch based on newbies opinions, I fully support buffing for the pro scene/top tier players, I'm just trying to understand (to be fair I haven't checked out that video just yet in the above comment).

The thing is, at least to a point, keeping the newcomer experience in mind at least to a degree is important. A lot of fighting games are fishing for a new audience of newcomers to sell more copies, and the "Just lab it" response to so many characters in the roster tends to be heavily discouraging to people who are fresh. It's fine to recognize that certain things shouldn't be nerfed or buffed according to lower skill players, but in my opinion its kinda bad design to make characters massively crutch on how many knowledge checks their kit has (There is a BIG discrepancy in the Tekken roster in that regard.)

[An R Key5993]

Originally posted by Stübi Senpai:

The thing is, at least to a point, keeping the newcomer experience in mind at least to a degree is important. A lot of fighting games are fishing for a new audience of newcomers to sell more copies, and the "Just lab it" response to so many characters in the roster tends to be heavily discouraging to people who are fresh. It's fine to recognize that certain things shouldn't be nerfed or buffed according to lower skill players, but in my opinion its kinda bad design to make characters massively crutch on how many knowledge checks their kit has (There is a BIG discrepancy in the Tekken roster in that regard.)

I agree with all this, to be fair though I'm not a new fighting game fan just backed the wrong horse (Mortal Kombat), suffered through 11 and quit 1. I'm enjoying that every day I do feel like I can get on and be like "how do I do this," or "what other strings/combos do I have?" The game is very fun but my goodness it has more knowledge checks then MK or SF by about a million miles.

New players are good but in MY OPINION they don't keep a franchise going. That being said I'm not sure what if any buffs/nerfs were with newbies in mind, just sharing thoughts.