Is it just me or does it sometimes feel like Bryan has to work way harder than most of the cast?

[clifford]

Bryan is pretty much the most honest character in the game. He's got no crazy, visually confusing stances, slow startup on his best moves, a weak punish game, no real panic button for up close rushdown (which is 99% of this damn game), the worst heat in the game, and he no crazy divekicks or busted ass jailing moves like the top tiers.

I'm not gonna pretend he's completely useless and needs a billion buffs but he's definitely bottom 10, maybe even 5. You have characters like Azucena, Xiao, Feng, and Drag, who can basically just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their way to victory with their insane buttons and crazy mixups, but all Bryan has is his counter hits, which get way less effective once you hit higher levels. The thing is, Bryan has always struggled with rushdown in every game he's been, hence why he's such a CH oriented character, but with all these mental offensive tools most of the cast got except for him and a few others like Leroy, Bryan is constantly fighting an uphill battle once he gets to purple.

Obviously he has good aspects like hatchet kick, B1, combo damage, and his wall pressure but here's the thing: Paul does everything he does but better. Seriously. If all you care about is winning, there's no reason to use Bryan over Paul because Paul has all of his tools except they're much easier and safer along with way better heat.

Knee, the best Bryan player ever, said himself that Bryan isn't playing Tekken 8 but Tekken 7.5 and I find it hard to disagree with him. I still love playing as him but having to go up against Azucenas in this game with Bryan sometimes feels like ripping your own penis off with the claw end of a hammer.

[clifford]

Postat inițial de Something Hank:

It feels like that for Steve right now. They utterly /destroyed/ every single one of his counterhit tools and all of his mids and gave him a stance that can be option selected entirely by powercrush. It's really, really painful to have to constantly give up all your pressure, can't punish much, can't apply plus frames, heat sucks, ducking cosntantly just destroys Steve, two of your stances can be easily option selected... It sucks. So bad.

Like I don't want Steve to just become an autopilot random launcher random +50 frames 50/50 50/50 heat heat heat heat heat machine that every other character in the game is. I just want him to become /Steve/ again and tone the game down a bit.

I feel ya. Steve is my secondary and he's got it even worse than Bryan in this game. It really does feel like some characters just got special treatment over the others when it comes to OS, power crushes, heat etc. I hate how this game encourages ungabunga ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and has almost completely abandoned the traditional Tekken neutral.

At least Paul is still really good.

[Jirai]

Postat inițial de BBZ:

Bryan is pretty much the most honest character in the game. He's got no crazy, visually confusing stances, slow startup on his best moves, a weak punish game, no real panic button for up close rushdown (which is 99% of this damn game), the worst heat in the game, and he no crazy divekicks or busted ass jailing moves like the top tiers.

I'm not gonna pretend he's completely useless and needs a billion buffs but he's definitely bottom 10, maybe even 5. You have characters like Azucena, Xiao, Feng, and Drag, who can basically just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their way to victory with their insane buttons and crazy mixups, but all Bryan has is his counter hits, which get way less effective once you hit higher levels. The thing is, Bryan has always struggled with rushdown in every game he's been, hence why he's such a CH oriented character, but with all these mental offensive tools most of the cast got except for him and a few others like Leroy, Bryan is constantly fighting an uphill battle once he gets to purple.

Obviously he has good aspects like hatchet kick, B1, combo damage, and his wall pressure but here's the thing: Paul does everything he does but better. Seriously. If all you care about is winning, there's no reason to use Bryan over Paul because Paul has all of his tools except they're much easier and safer along with way better heat.

Knee, the best Bryan player ever, said himself that Bryan isn't playing Tekken 8 but Tekken 7.5 and I find it hard to disagree with him. I still love playing as him but having to go up against Azucenas in this game with Bryan sometimes feels like ripping your own penis off with the claw end of a hammer.

no he does not have to work harder. they all blabla. bryan kills you in 2 touches in almost every stage and if he has done his combo you have to guess a 50/50. if you guess wrong you find yourself with the back to the wall on 5% life. Additionally Knee is absolutely no reference because he is highend pro and we are just casuals or advanced casuals. To all of that why do you think Pauls has everything in better than bryan?
you do know that paul has way harder movement and I am not speaking of kbd which is the same for both. play paul for an hour and your fingers are broken compared to bryan.
Furthermore you compare him with broken characters. a lot of characters suffer against them not just bryan.

[clifford]

Postat inițial de Jirai:

Postat inițial de BBZ:

Bryan is pretty much the most honest character in the game. He's got no crazy, visually confusing stances, slow startup on his best moves, a weak punish game, no real panic button for up close rushdown (which is 99% of this damn game), the worst heat in the game, and he no crazy divekicks or busted ass jailing moves like the top tiers.

I'm not gonna pretend he's completely useless and needs a billion buffs but he's definitely bottom 10, maybe even 5. You have characters like Azucena, Xiao, Feng, and Drag, who can basically just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their way to victory with their insane buttons and crazy mixups, but all Bryan has is his counter hits, which get way less effective once you hit higher levels. The thing is, Bryan has always struggled with rushdown in every game he's been, hence why he's such a CH oriented character, but with all these mental offensive tools most of the cast got except for him and a few others like Leroy, Bryan is constantly fighting an uphill battle once he gets to purple.

Obviously he has good aspects like hatchet kick, B1, combo damage, and his wall pressure but here's the thing: Paul does everything he does but better. Seriously. If all you care about is winning, there's no reason to use Bryan over Paul because Paul has all of his tools except they're much easier and safer along with way better heat.

Knee, the best Bryan player ever, said himself that Bryan isn't playing Tekken 8 but Tekken 7.5 and I find it hard to disagree with him. I still love playing as him but having to go up against Azucenas in this game with Bryan sometimes feels like ripping your own penis off with the claw end of a hammer.

no he does not have to work harder. they all blabla. bryan kills you in 2 touches in almost every stage and if he has done his combo you have to guess a 50/50. if you guess wrong you find yourself with the back to the wall on 5% life. Additionally Knee is absolutely no reference because he is highend pro and we are just casuals or advanced casuals. To all of that why do you think Pauls has everything in better than bryan?
you do know that paul has way harder movement and I am not speaking of kbd which is the same for both. play paul for an hour and your fingers are broken compared to bryan.
Furthermore you compare him with broken characters. a lot of characters suffer against them not just bryan.

brother, Paul is my tertiary and I've been playing him since Tekken 2. They both have similar inputs with their q. circle inputs but Paul generally has safer buttons. Also, Paul can 100% murder you at the wall like Bryan can thanks to jab > phoenix smasher

[NcSmile]

Postat inițial de Legendrake:

any character that constantly forces you to make hard reads is dishonest af, this is why in my book Kazuya is dishonest , yeah i know controversial statement .. i don't care, i have my own ideologies and opinions about the game and i don't care what the majority thinks

when a character constantly forces you to guess for your life with unreactable bs that's dishonest in my book sorry, i don't care what ScrupmanSWE says

to beat a good Kazuya or Bryan your hard reads and reaction needs to be godlike

This

[Pelikan]

Postat inițial de NcSmile:

Postat inițial de Legendrake:

any character that constantly forces you to make hard reads is dishonest af, this is why in my book Kazuya is dishonest , yeah i know controversial statement .. i don't care, i have my own ideologies and opinions about the game and i don't care what the majority thinks

when a character constantly forces you to guess for your life with unreactable bs that's dishonest in my book sorry, i don't care what ScrupmanSWE says

to beat a good Kazuya or Bryan your hard reads and reaction needs to be godlike

This

It is a fair point, however it is basically saying that all 50-50s are dishonest.

I think generally speaking when people talk about honesty/dishonesty it is more related to the "risk vs rewards" factor ( ie, dishonest= low risk, maximum reward) , an abundance of + frames on block ( or very long flowcharts super hard to defend against) and in some cases animations with broken hitboxes.

Dishonest is more about not following the rules that most characters abide to.

Having said that, it is true that eating big damage from having guessed wrong 50-50s can be frustrating, but that is the core design of some of these characters since Tekken 1-2.

The difference in T8 IMO, is that so many characters now have 50-50s. It was not the case before.

[RawTheory]

You are absolutely right. Bryan has to work harder than every other character in the game except maybe for Leroy and possibly Steve. The only upside to playing him is that you are forced to get really good at knowing the entire casts frame data and you get the satisfaction of knowing you outplayed everyone you beat without cheap crap past red ranks.

[Pelikan]

Yes Bryan is hard to play because despite having great pokes and so many counter hits, his CH moves are not the fastest and his combos are tricky for the most optimized ones. Plus he lost some launchers compared to T7.

He can 100% in 2 combos + wall to annihilate the opposition and his keep out game is still very good though. He is probably not in the top 10, but he is not bottom 10 either. If he takes you to the wall, it is quite hard to survive against a good Bryan.

His problem in T8 IMHO is that Bryan bad matchups happen to be against characters that are very popular ( and OP ) at the moment because they greatly benefited from the new mechanics.

Whereas he Bryan does not benefit as much from the new heat system IMO because he is a counter hit / poking character and those who became much in stronger in T8 are mostly the pressure chars, because heat + chip damage + stronger throws boosted even more their main strength, adding damage output (heat smash/combo extensions) , + frames and longer momentum to it, so it is harder for Bryan to deal with it.