Comeback are ridiculous in this game

[kaizokun]

It takes 19 seconds for Kazuya to take 80% of Jin's life bar. It takes Jin 10 seconds to take 90% of Kazuya's lifebar with a stupid Heat Smash and a rage art. Tekken 8 in a nutshell, comebacks are just ridiculous in this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH62nHRb8eg just look at the first minute.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Bro.. that comeback was sick...Are you kidding me? Cancelled offensive pressure from -70% hp with heat-activation (the way it's supposed to be to prevent offensive pressure), and then he side-steps ws4,4 retaliation into wall combo, and re-positions the get-up with a crouch-blocked hell-sweep... has pixel hp left...so it's still anyone's round...and hits him with the b2,1... after Tmm is caught pressing.

This is a perfect example of why the game is not just 'mash/pressure 50/50 into casino win" as everyone complains about. That was a really great first round.

[JyoKun]

Yeah, you have understood Tekken 8 in his fullness: trap 50/50, launch, combo 50%, Heat, combo 30%, wall, finish. Repeat again.
You don't fight, you just try to be first to launch and then you win with your drill unless you let your opponent escape to play a little longer.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Originally posted by PKMJ:

Yeah, you have understood Tekken 8 in his fullness: trap 50/50, launch, combo 50%, Heat, combo 30%, wall, finish. Repeat again.
You don't fight, you just try to be first to launch and then you win with your drill unless you let your opponent escape to play a little longer.

Are you even watching the video or reading what OP was talking about or just complaining about the game? Op is talking about the comeback potential of the fights and not 50/50 launch, combo 50%, heat combo finish. If that was the case, Jin would've lost the first round, which he actually won down from 70%.

[JyoKun]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Originally posted by PKMJ:

Yeah, you have understood Tekken 8 in his fullness: trap 50/50, launch, combo 50%, Heat, combo 30%, wall, finish. Repeat again.
You don't fight, you just try to be first to launch and then you win with your drill unless you let your opponent escape to play a little longer.

Are you even watching the video or reading what OP was talking about or just complaining about the game? Op is talking about the comeback potential of the fights and not 50/50 launch, combo 50%, heat combo finish. If that was the case, Jin would've lost the first round, which he actually won down from 70%.

Comeback = launch, combo 50%, Heat, combo 30%, wall, finish. Or perhaps for a change Heat engager, then the rest until wall combo ?
I missed something ? Ah yes the SS, cool... so what ? The one who made a mistake on his long string combo to make 80% life damage, was launched and now he loose 80% damage ?... What is this game ? Tennis ?

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Originally posted by PKMJ:

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Are you even watching the video or reading what OP was talking about or just complaining about the game? Op is talking about the comeback potential of the fights and not 50/50 launch, combo 50%, heat combo finish. If that was the case, Jin would've lost the first round, which he actually won down from 70%.

Comeback = launch, combo 50%, Heat, combo 30%, wall, finish. Or perhaps for a change Heat engager, then the rest until wall combo ?
I missed something ? Ah yes the SS, cool... so what ? The one who made a mistake on his long string combo to make 80% life damage, was launched and now he loose 80% damage ?... What is this game ? Tennis ?

The Kazuya launch wasn't even a "trap 50/50 launch" to begin with so your point is moot. If you watched that round Jin got launched off of d/f+1,d/f2 for disrespecting Kazuya. It's TMM, so his combo will reach wall due to optimizing wall. He immediately activates heat and goes for a 50/50 and heat-dashes to continue pressure. Aside from heat-engager and heat moves, this is very similar to what would happen if you got launched in T7. You would be at a disadvantageous position. It's not new, it's not fundamental "T8 flaw".

What's ironic about it is that this SAME pressure is stopped by heat activation on Jin's part. Also, what's wrong with Tennis? Tennis is a very competitive sport, so whatever analogy you're trying to point out there is also irrelevant.

Basically Jin stopped pressure with heat activation as it was meant for, and TMM was caught mashing retaliation ws4,4. That's what happens in quick-fast paced action fights. Even if it was a heat-smash that ultimately caused a wall-splat, that would've done grave damage in T7 too.

Obviously if you get a combo into wall, it's the player who has okizeme who has the advantage here. In fact, Jin even tried to re-align wall position, but scoped Kazuya hell-sweep read. That's really great game-sense. That goes beyond just 50/50 guessing or 30% combo wall finish. This is what I'm talking about. There's skill involved in this.

In fact, it was very close with Kazuya still able to have a chance to win with a pixel of health and rage art, but because he used his heat already, it becomes a bit more difficult. That's the trade-off for blowing it out immediately after launch if you don't win the round right away, but that's what TMM prioritizes. Not to mention, Jin gained about 20-30% health back from that engagement.

[Inkyubeytor]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Originally posted by PKMJ:

Comeback = launch, combo 50%, Heat, combo 30%, wall, finish. Or perhaps for a change Heat engager, then the rest until wall combo ?
I missed something ? Ah yes the SS, cool... so what ? The one who made a mistake on his long string combo to make 80% life damage, was launched and now he loose 80% damage ?... What is this game ? Tennis ?

The Kazuya launch wasn't even a "trap 50/50 launch" to begin with so your point is moot. If you watched that round Jin got launched off of d/f+1,d/f2 for disrespecting Kazuya. It's TMM, so his combo will reach wall due to optimizing wall. He immediately activates heat and goes for a 50/50 and heat-dashes to continue pressure. Aside from heat-engager and heat moves, this is very similar to what would happen if you got launched in T7. You would be at a disadvantageous position. It's not new, it's not fundamental "T8 flaw".

What's ironic about it is that this SAME pressure is stopped by heat activation on Jin's part. Also, what's wrong with Tennis? Tennis is a very competitive sport, so whatever analogy you're trying to point out there is also irrelevant.

Basically Jin stopped pressure with heat activation as it was meant for, and TMM was caught mashing retaliation ws4,4. That's what happens in quick-fast paced action fights. Even if it was a heat-smash that ultimately caused a wall-splat, that would've done grave damage in T7 too.

Obviously if you get a combo into wall, it's the player who has okizeme who has the advantage here. In fact, Jin even tried to re-align wall position, but scoped Kazuya hell-sweep read. That's really great game-sense. That goes beyond just 50/50 guessing or 30% combo wall finish. This is what I'm talking about. There's skill involved in this.

In fact, it was very close with Kazuya still able to have a chance to win with a pixel of health and rage art, but because he used his heat already, it becomes a bit more difficult. That's the trade-off for blowing it out immediately after launch if you don't win the round right away, but that's what TMM prioritizes. Not to mention, Jin gained about 20-30% health back from that engagement.

dude tldr but I read your first post in the thread.
Perhaps you continue your thought and present it in more detail, on the first post I completely agree with it, you, unlike 99% on steam forums, understand this game at a decent level, but please save your nerves and do not try to formulate your thoughts in such detail here.
Almost no one will understand or hear you anyway. Nowadays it is fashionable to talk nonsense and complain about balance in situations where it is not the balance that is to blame, but the poor play of the complainer.

[AvidExpert]

SWE fans are weird.

He whined ingame at getting an ass whooping so a fan of his makes entire thread to defend him?

lol

[kaizokun]

I'm not a fan of TMM, besides he doesn't complain about having lost the first round, he salutes his opponent.

Well I admit that I posted this message without having sufficiently analyzed this round.
To be completely honest Jin had already taken 20% of Kazuya's life bar at the start.
Kazuya was at +5 when Jin activated his heat to break the pressure, ok that's the usefulness of this move... There are too many get off me moves in this game imo.
Then he side step and whiff punish (great) with his heat smash, and luckily he wall splat for more damage.

The heat burst heat smash wall combo sequence takes 60% of Kazuya's life bar in 6 seconds. It's going too fast imo, I still find that comebacks are much easier with the heat ... Jin was -5 after all, and the smash does too much damage, without any single piece of effort.

I often find in this game that I have to make a lot of effort to take life from my opponent, and that in the blink of an eye, he manages to completely reverse the situation, after a small mistake, thanks to these easy mode moves.

Please don't take tekken 7 as an example, because the rage drives were already completely stupid, Jin's rage drive in T7 was rubbish. At least in T7 you could jab a rage art and keep your defense...