HEAT SMASH SHOULD BE UNSAFE

[[RNGR|x|GORO]]

Heat Smash should be unsafe on block like RA's. It's just annoying how people have so many safe options on heat. I don't mind heat dashes but honestly having 2 special moves that deal a ton of damage with 0 skill, 0 strategy and 0 execution is too much.

At first I didn't mind heat much because it was a new mechanic and in the beta it was fine imo. Problem is that now ppl just do:

Heat > Heat Smash > 50/50 mix up > RA

Rage Drives were better in this sense. Not all were unsafe but weren't as braindead as Heat Smashes. People could only use either Drive or Art. But now players have Heat Smash too which doesn't take the rage arts away. "One HS is done? No worries, I still have RA."

Btw, people aren't learning ♥♥♥♥ of this game anymore. Tekken 7 was way harder than 8 and people still managed to learn decent combos in green-yellow ranks; in 8 people literally start pressing when they are on -299999 frames, only know a combo that just deals like 30 damage (almost no bounds), after a random Heat activation they immediately do heat smash; no punish knowledge, no frames knowledge, and with trash combo damage and random button mashing.

Compared to 7, the neutral game is dead.

[Josefumi]

All Heat Smashes should do the exact same damage and have the same frame data.

[progste]

I mostly agree and I think this would be the best change to make the game less mashy.
Take Kazuya's heat smash for example: okay it hits low but it can be stepped and if blocked leaves him at minus and can be punished. Also the startup is not that fast so it can't be a magic "get out of pressure" or "RA number 2" like some other characters have.
I think most heat smashes should have weaknesses one way or another.

[C1REX]

I’m personally surprised how many moves give insane plus on block. Moves that are just -2 are great. 0 on block is fantastic. +2 is super good. But we have moves that are +5 or more. I’m not sure if it’s a good direction.

[progste]

Originally posted by C1REX:

I’m personally surprised how many moves give insane plus on block. Moves that are just -2 are great. 0 on block is fantastic. +2 is super good. But we have moves that are +5 or more. I’m not sure if it’s a good direction.

the worst part if that many of those moves don't have a clear weakness, for example it took them months to finally nerf Azucena's wr32 so that you can actually dodge and punish, but it feels like there are many other moves like that or close to it.

[Castyles]

Originally posted by Josefumi:

All Heat Smashes should do the exact same damage and have the same frame data.

This. Same goes for the rAgE aRtS.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Its still good its still good

I can use Kazuyas 1,1, for Everything into a df12 and ws2

Its still good its still good..

https://youtu.be/1XIcS63jA3w

As far as Neutral game, the Pig is dead in the sewer, and Lisa is telling Homer to let it go..

June reinstatement for Netcode fixes better be to fix what ever Namco Broke in the netcode, on top of whatever disease MTX era Eddy's Patch was introduced by Namco's Rushed BS, or this game is hitting Tekken 4 status..

FIX IT
NAMCO

[[RNGR|x|GORO]]

The only thing that breaks Tekken is heat. If heat is nerfed then I think that Tekken would be back to normal. Imo heat dashes on block shouldn't jail either

[Cheez3™]

Originally posted by Josefumi:

All Heat Smashes should do the exact same damage and have the same frame data.

sadly some heat smashers are like 3 frames, for example JIN can insta tap u, let u in negative and wavu wavu u for a easy 50 50. lots of characters in this game needs rebalance.

[Cheez3™]

Originally posted by CRMNL|GORO:

The only thing that breaks Tekken is heat. If heat is nerfed then I think that Tekken would be back to normal. Imo heat dashes on block shouldn't jail either

heat and aereal combo dmg, also the stupid special dmg some characters can do as exclusive, see king, with the grabs that drains like 70 hp or the aereal grab with insane dmg, is like eating a whole heat smash without being heat

[[RNGR|x|GORO]]

Originally posted by Cheez3:

Originally posted by Josefumi:

All Heat Smashes should do the exact same damage and have the same frame data.

sadly some heat smashers are like 3 frames, for example JIN can insta tap u, let u in negative and wavu wavu u for a easy 50 50. lots of characters in this game needs rebalance.

+ free wallsplat with free wall combo with one of his heat smashes

Originally posted by Cheez3:

Originally posted by CRMNL|GORO:

The only thing that breaks Tekken is heat. If heat is nerfed then I think that Tekken would be back to normal. Imo heat dashes on block shouldn't jail either

heat and aereal combo dmg, also the stupid special dmg some characters can do as exclusive, see king, with the grabs that drains like 70 hp or the aereal grab with insane dmg, is like eating a whole heat smash without being heat

Some characters combo damage isn't that high (Asuka's for example), but I don't see aerial damage much of a problem because you can recover part of it

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by CRMNL|GORO:

The only thing that breaks Tekken is heat. If heat is nerfed then I think that Tekken would be back to normal. Imo heat dashes on block shouldn't jail either

Heat smash jailing is fine as a 50/50 as long as it stays a block high or block low.
The issue is the timing is inconsistent..
if the game is going to make a 50/50 guessing game then make those interactions easy to react against. Having inconsistent frames is just jarring and breaks certain characters options. if it was all the same frame game for heat No one would complain and people would sing get good scrub. Currently its broken and the reaction can be messed with due to the way the game messes with delay and rollback.

[[RNGR|x|GORO]]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by CRMNL|GORO:

The only thing that breaks Tekken is heat. If heat is nerfed then I think that Tekken would be back to normal. Imo heat dashes on block shouldn't jail either

Heat smash jailing is fine as a 50/50 as long as it stays a block high or block low.
The issue is the timing is inconsistent..
if the game is going to make a 50/50 guessing game then make those interactions easy to react against. Having inconsistent frames is just jarring and breaks certain characters options. if it was all the same frame game for heat No one would complain and people would sing get good scrub. Currently its broken and the reaction can be messed with due to the way the game messes with delay and rollback.

HS jailing's 50/50 is not fine at all: it's just a braindead casino game, even if you just have to block either high or low (well, it'll have to be mid or low because most highs can be ducked). You have throws as well and that's a problem too. Some chars have a full set of throws while most at least, have the standard three: 1 & 2 break, 2 break only and 1+2 break only, so apart from guessing mids or lows, you will have to guess throw breaks too.

Heat Dashes jailing is the same, they literally make your move not just +2 or +3 on block (which is a big frame advantage on its own), but literally +17 on block and its the exact same issue as HS. Not to mention that HD on hit launch for either a minicombo or a full combo, so there you go a normal hit launcher +17 on block; not even Rage Drives on 7 gave so much frame advantage.

[kiteless 凧無し]

If they had rereleased Tekken 7 with better graphics, better netcode, removed the 2d characters and called it ‘Tekken 8’ it would have been a massive improvement over whatever the heck this 50/50 heat, everything + on block nonsense game is

[Necropants]

Originally posted by C1REX:

I’m personally surprised how many moves give insane plus on block. Moves that are just -2 are great. 0 on block is fantastic. +2 is super good. But we have moves that are +5 or more. I’m not sure if it’s a good direction.

Ewgf is +5 on block which has been in tekken for as long as anyone cares to remember.
When we start getting over that especially the heat dash thats when things are starting to get silly what is it like +18?

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Necropants:

Originally posted by C1REX:

I’m personally surprised how many moves give insane plus on block. Moves that are just -2 are great. 0 on block is fantastic. +2 is super good. But we have moves that are +5 or more. I’m not sure if it’s a good direction.

Ewgf is +5 on block which has been in tekken for as long as anyone cares to remember.
When we start getting over that especially the heat dash thats when things are starting to get silly what is it like +18?

Heat dash is +18 on block near a wall. Without a wall it's only +5. These moves usually do quite substantial chip damage on block as well.
+18 on block is like trolling.