Not a level playing field - Case: Panda

[T1g3r]

Its a joke, how underpowered Panda is compared to the rest of the cast

ofc, if the opponent doesnt know anything about bears, panda can get cheesy wins (but this is true for every char really)

if the oppponent knows the matchup and their own char well, its simply not a even level playing field, especially some chars have so many better frames and faster moves, and the panda player must have god mode defence and reads, not funny to only work with mental frames

@ devs, panda needs more buffs, its not even funny:
- better frames, almost nothing is plus, or not plus enough (on block and hit)
- heat smash should not be interruptable mid way through the animation, faster heat burst and smash needed fosho
- range of many attacks is a joke (its a bear and has less range than other chars which are smaller in size)
- other chars auto-evade important lows in key situations (Alisa and DJ by flying over them)
- movement is a joke, other chars with good standard movement even get kempo moves (Feng, Steve, King, Jin, Asucena,... long list) creating space backwards and then fast long range attack forwards, better movement tools r needed
- attacks are ridiculously linear and have tiny hitboxes (in general the 3D aspect in Tekken 8 is a joke, its not 3D, not even 2.5), moves need more tracking (at least some key moves)
- often Panda falls into grounded with the head away fromm opponent, too often, very bad position for Panda
- maybe a bug: when Panda is grounded face towards opponent, sometimes d1+2 is not executed correctly, but Panda gets up in hunter stance face AWAY from opponent, doesnt make any sense

[C1REX]

Panda is just a weaker version of Kuma with worse hit boxes so that is broken but Kuma is a decent character now that just got a buff. So I would just use Kuma until they fix Panda. Unless you want to use a weaker character.

Its powercrush is very good. Combo damage is super good. 50damage command throw. Non breakable throw from a stance. Bears are very viable now in my opinion.

[T1g3r]

Originally posted by C1REX:

Panda is just a weaker version of Kuma with worse hit boxes so that is broken but Kuma is a decent character now that just got a buff. So I would just use Kuma until they fix Panda. Unless you want to use a weaker character.

Its powercrush is very good. Combo damage is super good. 50damage command throw. Non breakable throw from a stance. Bears are very viable now in my opinion.

shows that u dont know what u r talking about

Why should I play Kuma, I want to play Panda, Panda should be a balanced char too with enough tools in the box to compete...

good powercrushes and combos are standard among every char... so not much left whats only good for Panda (wall dmg is good but apart from that not much)

again the points in my post above are valid, and u didnt present any valid counter argument, as of now Panda has only disadvantageous match-ups, unless the opponent is bad af or plays a bear himself

its a joke that they release such an underpowered char

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by C1REX:

Panda is just a weaker version of Kuma with worse hit boxes so that is broken but Kuma is a decent character now that just got a buff. So I would just use Kuma until they fix Panda. Unless you want to use a weaker character.

Its powercrush is very good. Combo damage is super good. 50damage command throw. Non breakable throw from a stance. Bears are very viable now in my opinion.

pretty much..
Panda is the shortie with more mind game potential, where Kuma is the ez tank.
Panda has always been the shorty who requires more work..

[Zagryzaec]

Last time I checked panda had highest winrate.

Let them start from nerfing it into average winrate then you can talk about buffs.

[T1g3r]

the threat is about how underpowered Panda is, I dont give a f about Kuma at this point

every char should be viable and have tools to compete

[T1g3r]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Last time I checked panda had highest winrate.

Let them start from nerfing it into average winrate then you can talk about buffs.

that is because most ppl dont know the matchup, plus the winrates r not official and cannot be trusted

if ppl know what they r doing, Panda is weak af

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by T1g3r:

the threat is about how underpowered Panda is, I dont give a f about Kuma at this point

every char should be viable and have tools to compete

Panda has mostly the same moveset it requires more tactics to bait the other person in..

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by T1g3r:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Last time I checked panda had highest winrate.

Let them start from nerfing it into average winrate then you can talk about buffs.

that is because most ppl dont know the matchup, plus the winrates r not official and cannot be trusted

if ppl know what they r doing, Panda is weak af

aka predictable being the weakness aka use mind games, you mained yoshi and Lei..

[T1g3r]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by T1g3r:

the threat is about how underpowered Panda is, I dont give a f about Kuma at this point

every char should be viable and have tools to compete

Panda has mostly the same moveset it requires more tactics to bait the other person in..

without good frames u cannot bait stuff, see u dont know what u r talking about

[T1g3r]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Originally posted by T1g3r:

that is because most ppl dont know the matchup, plus the winrates r not official and cannot be trusted

if ppl know what they r doing, Panda is weak af

aka predictable being the weakness aka use mind games, you mained yoshi and Lei..

thats why I know what I am talking about, and Panda is hugely underpowered

btw: yoshi has flash, Lei had razor rush and other good (fast) shenanigans, what does panda have?

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by T1g3r:

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Panda has mostly the same moveset it requires more tactics to bait the other person in..

without good frames u cannot bait stuff, see u dont know what u r talking about

If shes high ranked it's down to playstyle and use.

I don't make the rules kid.

[T1g3r]

who said u make the rules?

you defend a failed char design though

u basically agree with me without noticing it... above u kinda said Panda is basically T7 Panda with some additional moves... T8 meta is totally different... how can Panda deal with fast aggression (without being forced to play in god mode defence; other chars have panic or evasion tools)?

I know how to play Panda a little better than u, I guess, which rank is ur Panda? my Panda is Battle Ruler... but now most opponents know Panda's (fake) tricks, or force their BS on Panda which Panda cannot handle (one can only have so many correct reads or lucky guesses)

most of the time Panda doesnt even force real 50/50

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by T1g3r:

who said u make the rules?

you defend a failed char design though

u basically agree with me without noticing it... above u kinda said Panda is basically T7 Panda with some additional moves... T8 meta is totally different... how can Panda deal with fast aggression (without being forced to play in god mode defence; other chars have panic or evasion tools)?

I know how to play Panda a little better than u, I guess, which rank is ur Panda? my Panda is Battle Ruler... but now most opponents know Panda's (fake) tricks, or force their BS on Panda which Panda cannot handle (one can only have so many correct reads or lucky guesses)

most of the time Panda doesnt even force real 50/50

the statistics don't agree meaning its a mastery issue.
If panda is a elevated or high tier pre patch and she gets buffs, then its not about anything bear vs bear other than Height and reach.

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Last time I checked panda had highest winrate.

Let them start from nerfing it into average winrate then you can talk about buffs.

The rules being as far as of character use

[T1g3r]

which statistics?

these reddit statistics that some random private ppl "created", yeah, very trustworthy/ sound/ reliable... even the numbers bamco released dont say much

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by T1g3r:

which statistics?

these reddit statistics that some random private ppl "created", yeah, very trustworthy(sound/ reliable, even the numbers bamco released dont say much

yes the ones compiled by a coder taking the % of played characters into a algorithm.

its not made by some short term grade school effort..

They showed their work and how they did it as well..

so No.. not a random..

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1b5rivl/an_second_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_based_on/

*As always, the code I used for this investigation can be found at my github*

So no Not annon..