Dragunov sucks

[Vakula]

What a pain in the ass character to fight. He seems to be plus on a lot of hard hitting moves, and his strings/ combos seem really strong. Dumb character / rant over

[Immortal]

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Messaggio originale di Immortal:

Not respecting his +frames of which he has quite a lot is the easiest way to get absolutely destroyed vs Dragunov on higher levels.

On higher levels he shouldnt get those frames in the first place.

He will, its just a matter of time, one way or the other, he just wont have them so often as in lower ranks.

[Zagryzaec]

Messaggio originale di Immortal:

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

On higher levels he shouldnt get those frames in the first place.

He will, its just a matter of time, one way or the other, he just wont have them so often as in lower ranks.

After you did a mistake right? And then he will give up those possibly bieng launched for attempting mediocre reward move like db3+4

[Zagryzaec]

Messaggio originale di Animented:

I really don't understand why people find him so hard to fight. For me the difficulty is basically the same as tekken 7 ( in which he was pretty much bottom 10 ). Just don't respect him and side step when at a distance

Pretty much this.
It's honestly surprise me amount of attention he gets when there are many other characters objectively stronger than him.

[Immortal]

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Messaggio originale di Immortal:

He will, its just a matter of time, one way or the other, he just wont have them so often as in lower ranks.

After you did a mistake right? And then he will give up those possibly bieng launched for attempting mediocre reward move like db3+4

I think db3+4 kinda sucks and should not be used and i see people using it less these days(higher ranks). On knockdown b1+2 or wr2 is the go to and its a mind game with crush step. If they're press happy and do press something to interrupt(like d1/s1) - they're open to full launch next time with simple df2. Risk/reward is highly in Drag favour up close.

He has a good up close game, people just tend to go for stupid(risky) options like db3+4 or d2 for whatever reason but once you start to look at high level Dragunov mains like JDCR, Nobi and even SephiBlack to some degree, he is REALLY scary up close.

I don't think he is the best character in the game thou, to be clear.

[Domini Inferi]

A big weakness to drag is to side step. If you can do that you can outplay the player playing him.

[Iridius]

The only reason I beat dragonuv is because juns bs is strong enough to counter it

[KrossKounter]

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Messaggio originale di Animented:

I really don't understand why people find him so hard to fight. For me the difficulty is basically the same as tekken 7 ( in which he was pretty much bottom 10 ). Just don't respect him and side step when at a distance

Pretty much this.
It's honestly surprise me amount of attention he gets when there are many other characters objectively stronger than him.

And this is exactly why I said to not listen to people who main a character, talk about that character.
They will always make up excuses and don't even know what makes the character so good.
Certainly this dude doesn't understand why dragunov is so crazy. His move choices seem really bad which is why he thinks he's not as good.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Messaggio originale di Organ Harvester 9000:

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Pretty much this.
It's honestly surprise me amount of attention he gets when there are many other characters objectively stronger than him.

And this is exactly why I said to not listen to people who main a character, talk about that character.
They will always make up excuses and don't even know what makes the character so good.
Certainly this dude doesn't understand why dragunov is so crazy. His move choices seem really bad which is why he thinks he's not as good.

Well, yeah...anyone who is remotely decent at the game understands that Dragunov is way too strong.

That new wall damage does way more damage than the average character should. Chip damage makes it nigh impossible to continually block Dragunov and figure out his patterns very quickly. His heat-smash is insanely good. His new FC low makes guessing every d2 or d/f1, etc. a nightmare. He basically gets a free mix-up after a mix-up and can choose to do nothing or continue his pressure. His d/f1 extension now counter-hit launches.

This is definitely not Tekken 7 Dragunov. Especially with the nerfs to magic 4's and b1's. His pressure in T8 is insanely good. Combine that with his new low that does a chunky amount of damage and puts him massively on plus; he has a plethora of ways of opening up an opponent or locking them down just by standing next to his opponent. Not many characters can do that objectively, unless they're hyper-aggressive characters such as Hwoarang. His sneak-stance is actually very useful. It adds another layer to his already aggressive game-plan. He's like way more powerful than his T7 iteration and not many other character mains would say the same about their T7 counter-part.

[Zagryzaec]

Messaggio originale di Be_Proud (Heritage):

Messaggio originale di Organ Harvester 9000:

And this is exactly why I said to not listen to people who main a character, talk about that character.
They will always make up excuses and don't even know what makes the character so good.
Certainly this dude doesn't understand why dragunov is so crazy. His move choices seem really bad which is why he thinks he's not as good.

Well, yeah...anyone who is remotely decent at the game understands that Dragunov is way too strong.

That new wall damage does way more damage than the average character should. Chip damage makes it nigh impossible to continually block Dragunov and figure out his patterns very quickly. His heat-smash is insanely good. His new FC low makes guessing every d2 or d/f1, etc. a nightmare. He basically gets a free mix-up after a mix-up and can choose to do nothing or continue his pressure. His d/f1 extension now counter-hit launches.

This is definitely not Tekken 7 Dragunov. Especially with the nerfs to magic 4's and b1's. His pressure in T8 is insanely good. Combine that with his new low that does a chunky amount of damage and puts him massively on plus; he has a plethora of ways of opening up an opponent or locking them down just by standing next to his opponent. Not many characters can do that objectively, unless they're hyper-aggressive characters such as Hwoarang. His sneak-stance is actually very useful. It adds another layer to his already aggressive game-plan. He's like way more powerful than his T7 iteration and not many other character mains would say the same about their T7 counter-part.

A great point.

Let's start from the simple part. What rank or percentage of players is considered remotely decent? Remotely decent? Do you supposed to hold this rank as Dragunov to understand his strengths and weaknesses?

Second of all, why do you comparing Dragunov from Tekken 8 with Dragunov from Tekken 7? Of COURSE Dragunov from 8 will be massively stronger than one from Tekken 7 even without any moves added, because they fixed lots of his midd do they actually can hit something.

Why don't you compare him to other characters from TEKKEN 8.

Dragunov chip damage is NOWHERE close to victors sword or Alisa's chainsaws. Like her heat is in big part built upon taking like a half of opponent life through blocking. So Dragunov is weak in this area compared to other characters.

Dragunovs new df1 make you guess after d2? What? What do you even mean? D2 is minus ON HIT! hworang, Nina, kazuya, Alisa are all + on hit, but dragunovs d2 is minus and his d4 is also minus ON COUNTERHIT! what kind unseemable low does? What kazuya unseemable low does? What hworang unseemable low does? Compared to other characters Dragunov is objectively weak. And even if you compare to more risky db3+4 it STILL weaker than other unseeable lows from Tekken.

His df1 extension counterhit? But if you land counterhit df1,4 it will not launch opponent. And if df1 is blocked enemy doesn't need to attempt to hit - he just duck and launch you. And if you even hit with df1 you STILL cannot use extension because Eden on hit he can duck and LAUNCH you. Compare it to hundreds of moves that jail or guarantee that if low hit than next mid or high also hit. Amc dragunovs is weaker in this area too.

He gets mix up after mix up? Just like every other character like kazuya or Paul or jin or Alisa? You know the difference? In three hits Paul kills you. Literally. In like four kazuya. Alisa will take half of your life bar even if you guess correctly. Dragunov needs to risk his life 4 times just to have this mixup be equal to punishment he will get by losing it ONCE.

People who say that Dragunov is in top tier is definitely either very biased or don't understand ♥♥♥♥ about Tekken.

What rank are you by the way?

[Immortal]

Messaggio originale di Be_Proud (Heritage):

Messaggio originale di Organ Harvester 9000:

And this is exactly why I said to not listen to people who main a character, talk about that character.
They will always make up excuses and don't even know what makes the character so good.
Certainly this dude doesn't understand why dragunov is so crazy. His move choices seem really bad which is why he thinks he's not as good.

Well, yeah...anyone who is remotely decent at the game understands that Dragunov is way too strong.

That new wall damage does way more damage than the average character should. Chip damage makes it nigh impossible to continually block Dragunov and figure out his patterns very quickly. His heat-smash is insanely good. His new FC low makes guessing every d2 or d/f1, etc. a nightmare. He basically gets a free mix-up after a mix-up and can choose to do nothing or continue his pressure. His d/f1 extension now counter-hit launches.

This is definitely not Tekken 7 Dragunov. Especially with the nerfs to magic 4's and b1's. His pressure in T8 is insanely good. Combine that with his new low that does a chunky amount of damage and puts him massively on plus; he has a plethora of ways of opening up an opponent or locking them down just by standing next to his opponent. Not many characters can do that objectively, unless they're hyper-aggressive characters such as Hwoarang. His sneak-stance is actually very useful. It adds another layer to his already aggressive game-plan. He's like way more powerful than his T7 iteration and not many other character mains would say the same about their T7 counter-part.

Holy molly, that's like the most biased and not true at all take, ever.

Like it was already explained above, there is no mix up with D1,4 follow up, even on hit(d2 or d1fc). On block he doesnt go past 1 part and its death for Dragunov(-17 if i remember correctly).

Mate you clearly have some weird vendeta towards Dragunov but he isn't what you try make him to be. Not even close to it.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Let's start from the simple part. What rank or percentage of players is considered remotely decent? Remotely decent? Do you supposed to hold this rank as Dragunov to understand his strengths and weaknesses?

Certainly, I'll give you my requirement. I consider a decent player as one who can play at least blue or above. This means understanding the game at a high-level. That is where a player will have a deeper understanding of how the game works in order to win more frequently.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Second of all, why do you comparing Dragunov from Tekken 8 with Dragunov from Tekken 7? Of COURSE Dragunov from 8 will be massively stronger than one from Tekken 7 even without any moves added, because they fixed lots of his midd do they actually can hit something.

If you think it's only his mids, after what I've explained, you need to look at his move-list again and quit being delusional.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Dragunov chip damage is NOWHERE close to victors sword or Alisa's chainsaws. Like her heat is in big part built upon taking like a half of opponent life through blocking. So Dragunov is weak in this area compared to other characters.

Dragunovs new df1 make you guess after d2? What? What do you even mean? D2 is minus ON HIT! hworang, Nina, kazuya, Alisa are all + on hit, but dragunovs d2 is minus and his d4 is also minus ON COUNTERHIT! what kind unseemable low does? What kazuya unseemable low does? What hworang unseemable low does? Compared to other characters Dragunov is objectively weak. And even if you compare to more risky db3+4 it STILL weaker than other unseeable lows from Tekken.

If you think that is the reason why chip damage is weak or strong, you do not understand what it mean by string staggers and mental plus frames.

And, it is this fact that you cannot stand in front of Dragunov with the impending WR2 or d/f1 or d2 combined with the threat of FC low and/or low with chunky damage and massive plus frames. This already locks opponent in place. You do not seem to realize how much in favor this is for Dragunov and not his opponent.

I swear, it really sounds like you haven't gotten out of intermediate Tekken by the way you speak.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

His df1 extension counterhit? But if you land counterhit df1,4 it will not launch opponent. And if df1 is blocked enemy doesn't need to attempt to hit - he just duck and launch you. And if you even hit with df1 you STILL cannot use extension because Eden on hit he can duck and LAUNCH you. Compare it to hundreds of moves that jail or guarantee that if low hit than next mid or high also hit. Amc dragunovs is weaker in this area too.

Case in point, you lack an understanding of what string stagger, mental plus frames, and pressure really is.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

He gets mix up after mix up? Just like every other character like kazuya or Paul or jin or Alisa? You know the difference? In three hits Paul kills you. Literally. In like four kazuya. Alisa will take half of your life bar even if you guess correctly. Dragunov needs to risk his life 4 times just to have this mixup be equal to punishment he will get by losing it ONCE.

It is a travesty when you think that Dragunov can even remotely be compared to Kazuya, Paul or Alisa. Do you know what pressure is? Kazuya and Paul and Alisa cannot lock you down under their strings or create mental pressure the way Dragunov can. Both Paul and Kazuya are rewarded for knocking you down or spacing to their advantage through timing and proper reading.
You have to learn to read here. I said this. "His pressure in T8 is insanely good. Combine that with his new low that does a chunky amount of damage and puts him massively on plus; he has a plethora of ways of opening up an opponent or locking them down just by standing next to his opponent. Not many characters can do that objectively, unless they're hyper-aggressive characters such as Hwoarang."

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

People who say that Dragunov is in top tier is definitely either very biased or don't understand ♥♥♥♥ about Tekken.

You really underestimate why I specifically said d2 and d/f1 and FC low. Anyway, what rank have you reached in Tekken 8? I am currently Fujin~Raijin, but I haven't grinded yet to gold as I am lacking in time and priorities. Highest rank emperor in T7. I used Gigas. If you need to learn how to pressure, look up this guide. So that way you won't give a long list of basic stuff I have to reiterate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RarbPjdo5As&list=PLbe2bVtc1ZkW7t-QYVOyBhDHD14PEWxZ1&index=7

Now, if you're going to say that xyz does have stagger strings, they don't have i13 d/f1's with -1 attached to them. This is very crucial for pressure too. If you don't know why it's so good...then we probably don't have a discussion here.

[KrossKounter]

Ugh so tired of people pretending they're not carried by their character.
People really have big egos huh?

Good for you Be_Proud to actually read through all that nonsense.
I couldn't be bothered past a couple sentences.

[AvidExpert]

Messaggio originale di Be_Proud (Heritage):

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Let's start from the simple part. What rank or percentage of players is considered remotely decent? Remotely decent? Do you supposed to hold this rank as Dragunov to understand his strengths and weaknesses?

Certainly, I'll give you my requirement. I consider a decent player as one who can play at least blue or above. This means understanding the game at a high-level. That is where a player will have a deeper understanding of how the game works in order to win more frequently.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Second of all, why do you comparing Dragunov from Tekken 8 with Dragunov from Tekken 7? Of COURSE Dragunov from 8 will be massively stronger than one from Tekken 7 even without any moves added, because they fixed lots of his midd do they actually can hit something.

If you think it's only his mids, after what I've explained, you need to look at his move-list again and quit being delusional.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

Dragunov chip damage is NOWHERE close to victors sword or Alisa's chainsaws. Like her heat is in big part built upon taking like a half of opponent life through blocking. So Dragunov is weak in this area compared to other characters.

Dragunovs new df1 make you guess after d2? What? What do you even mean? D2 is minus ON HIT! hworang, Nina, kazuya, Alisa are all + on hit, but dragunovs d2 is minus and his d4 is also minus ON COUNTERHIT! what kind unseemable low does? What kazuya unseemable low does? What hworang unseemable low does? Compared to other characters Dragunov is objectively weak. And even if you compare to more risky db3+4 it STILL weaker than other unseeable lows from Tekken.

If you think that is the reason why chip damage is weak or strong, you do not understand what it mean by string staggers and mental plus frames.

And, it is this fact that you cannot stand in front of Dragunov with the impending WR2 or d/f1 or d2 combined with the threat of FC low and/or low with chunky damage and massive plus frames. This already locks opponent in place. You do not seem to realize how much in favor this is for Dragunov and not his opponent.

I swear, it really sounds like you haven't gotten out of intermediate Tekken by the way you speak.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

His df1 extension counterhit? But if you land counterhit df1,4 it will not launch opponent. And if df1 is blocked enemy doesn't need to attempt to hit - he just duck and launch you. And if you even hit with df1 you STILL cannot use extension because Eden on hit he can duck and LAUNCH you. Compare it to hundreds of moves that jail or guarantee that if low hit than next mid or high also hit. Amc dragunovs is weaker in this area too.

Case in point, you lack an understanding of what string stagger, mental plus frames, and pressure really is.

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

He gets mix up after mix up? Just like every other character like kazuya or Paul or jin or Alisa? You know the difference? In three hits Paul kills you. Literally. In like four kazuya. Alisa will take half of your life bar even if you guess correctly. Dragunov needs to risk his life 4 times just to have this mixup be equal to punishment he will get by losing it ONCE.

It is a travesty when you think that Dragunov can even remotely be compared to Kazuya, Paul or Alisa. Do you know what pressure is? Kazuya and Paul and Alisa cannot lock you down under their strings or create mental pressure the way Dragunov can. Both Paul and Kazuya are rewarded for knocking you down or spacing to their advantage through timing and proper reading.
You have to learn to read here. I said this. "His pressure in T8 is insanely good. Combine that with his new low that does a chunky amount of damage and puts him massively on plus; he has a plethora of ways of opening up an opponent or locking them down just by standing next to his opponent. Not many characters can do that objectively, unless they're hyper-aggressive characters such as Hwoarang."

Messaggio originale di Zagryzaec:

People who say that Dragunov is in top tier is definitely either very biased or don't understand ♥♥♥♥ about Tekken.

You really underestimate why I specifically said d2 and d/f1 and FC low. Anyway, what rank have you reached in Tekken 8? I am currently Fujin~Raijin, but I haven't grinded yet to gold as I am lacking in time and priorities. Highest rank emperor in T7. I used Gigas. If you need to learn how to pressure, look up this guide. So that way you won't give a long list of basic stuff I have to reiterate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RarbPjdo5As&list=PLbe2bVtc1ZkW7t-QYVOyBhDHD14PEWxZ1&index=7

Now, if you're going to say that xyz does have stagger strings, they don't have i13 d/f1's with -1 attached to them. This is very crucial for pressure too. If you don't know why it's so good...then we probably don't have a discussion here.

Bro you called me a scrub even though I'm blue at 72% win rate and said my opinion was irrelevant.

That seems a bit picky when you decide to listen.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Messaggio originale di D2 = Failed Electric.:

Bro you called me a scrub even though I'm blue at 72% win rate and said my opinion was irrelevant.

That seems a bit picky when you decide to listen.

Nah, man. I didn't call you scrub. I simply said it breeds skepticism. You can re-read it. I did go into practice mode that day and I can block the d2 on reaction. I just haven't had the in-game practice yet.

Hey, if you reach God ranks soon, we can play a few matches if you'd like. I just cannot prioritize a video-game over my life at this moment.

[Immortal]

Mental plus frames.... holy sh...

He went with things that don't exist or rather don't exist in the game, its people reacting or not when it's their turn(giving respect, scared to press) which have nothing to do with Dragunov specificly, at all and apply to every character in the game...

There is no point in talking with him, coz you will never convince him that Dragunov isn't "broken" or is worse than some characters.