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TEKKEN 8 > General Discussions > Topic Details
Super Cosmic Space Magnet Mar 6, 2024 @ 2:48pm
Need advice on how to fight Leo
Hello reader,

I just had the most humiliating match in ranked that really highlighted just how little I know about Leo. I have no idea what his forward marching thing is called so have had difficulty looking it up. I know it is a two hit string that has a third hit that's either a hop kick, a counterhit punching mid, or a low stomp.

How do you stop Leo just stopping after the second hit and starting a new loop? I tried all sorts of different strategies for dealing with it and basically all of them failed in very comic fashion. I don't know the theory behind what I'm supposed to do against it - can anyone please help?

I recorded both of the games here. It is... Painful to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q35eXqjgNOY
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Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):
Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:
Most of those counterhits were because I was trying to re-establish neutral with a DF1. :')

You're absolutely right though about Lars players generally just being full yolo at all times - I'm much the same tbh. It's a bad habit.

You're also right that I don't think I even attempted to sidestep the mixup at any point. My brain went to other tools as I went down the "help I'm being pressured" emergency checklist, only settling on Lightning Screw near the end of the second game. Sidestepping really should've been higher up on that list...

But yes, my mindset is very much "It's very bad that I lost to this and wasn't able to adapt during the match, so I need to lab & ask the internet for help".

I enjoy labbing, so I tend to go over the entire move-list. However, if you're not that type of person, labbing the parts that you have trouble with is way faster and efficient.

If you break it down, you should do these things in practice mode when labbing stances.

1. What are opponent's stances? Leo has 2 stances. BOK and KNK
2. What moves go into opponent's stances? KNK is f4, b1,4..., etc.
3. What is the risk-reward ratio of stance moves?

I read this once before, but when you're playing matches, find the best way to skew the risk-reward ratio in your favor. For example, an intermediate player uses pokes incorrectly to deal damage. An advanced player uses pokes to set-up a play so that they know when the opponent wishes to attack, crouch, step, and so they're able to capitalize on it with a launch.

In stance cases, for example Reina. If a Reina uses ff2 pressure into stance (+1 on block), the best option is actually to duck or challenge her. It seems counter-intuitive, but it's actually not. Because, if you ducked or challenged her the first time and launched her, she will be more likely to use the mid options or throw out the high, etc. if you challenged her. If she uses the mid options, she has a potential of getting launched or getting punished hard.

The worst option to ever do in her stance is to block without reacting. You either challenge her, sidestep, or go for the duck. It also depends on how you conditioned her to play. But, never stand there eating stance pressure without getting information. Most Reina players are lazy and will go for the high attack after Sentai stance.

This goes for any stance character and it becomes a mind-game for both players. The better player will still manage to figure out a way to edge out a win. Now, some stances have better risk-reward ratio than others, and it adds extra spice to most characters, including Shaheen.

However, one thing is, don't over-complicate Tekken 8 or overwhelm yourself. You don't have to lab every single character, especially if you aren't having trouble with them. Only with the things you cannot adapt to.
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
Be_Proud (Heritage) Mar 6, 2024 @ 3:38pm 
So b1,4 is +8 on block. I have to go check. The Leo literally spammed you to death with that string, because you don't know how to punish the stance. Occasionally, from neutral Leo threw out the mid,high,low kick that counter hits on the low. It's also duckable on the 2nd string.

B1 range is very stubby so you can sidestep it (not sure which direction) and whiff punish Leo. You're playing Lars so... it's kind of hard to say this, because Lars player, no offense, just spam their stuff until the opponent dies...

Leo can go into the low profile stance after using the knee stance into one of Leo's moves.

That's like layer 2, but a simple back dash or side-step/sidewalk on SSR will beat some of the options, I believe (not sure which direction, check in practice).

Two things I observed.

1. You never sidestep at all, or back-dashed until you regained neutral.
2. You need space and never neutral. Literally, both of you tried to bull-doze each other to death.

The best advice I can give you is, when you don't know the match-up well, time your offense so that you can play your mind-games. When you're on the defensive end, stop mashing, hold back, and kbd out. Now, when playing against players who know this, do your best to figure out what is going on, try to win, and then after the set lab the character.
#1
Super Cosmic Space Magnet Mar 6, 2024 @ 3:53pm 
Most of those counterhits were because I was trying to re-establish neutral with a DF1. :')

You're absolutely right though about Lars players generally just being full yolo at all times - I'm much the same tbh. It's a bad habit.

You're also right that I don't think I even attempted to sidestep the mixup at any point. My brain went to other tools as I went down the "help I'm being pressured" emergency checklist, only settling on Lightning Screw near the end of the second game. Sidestepping really should've been higher up on that list...

But yes, my mindset is very much "It's very bad that I lost to this and wasn't able to adapt during the match, so I need to lab & ask the internet for help".
#2
(メ) Mar 6, 2024 @ 4:38pm 
As a Leo player, this was nice to watch.
I really dont need to worry so much about f4 canceling, this gameplan seems solid enough
#3
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
Be_Proud (Heritage) Mar 6, 2024 @ 4:52pm 
Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:
Most of those counterhits were because I was trying to re-establish neutral with a DF1. :')

You're absolutely right though about Lars players generally just being full yolo at all times - I'm much the same tbh. It's a bad habit.

You're also right that I don't think I even attempted to sidestep the mixup at any point. My brain went to other tools as I went down the "help I'm being pressured" emergency checklist, only settling on Lightning Screw near the end of the second game. Sidestepping really should've been higher up on that list...

But yes, my mindset is very much "It's very bad that I lost to this and wasn't able to adapt during the match, so I need to lab & ask the internet for help".

I enjoy labbing, so I tend to go over the entire move-list. However, if you're not that type of person, labbing the parts that you have trouble with is way faster and efficient.

If you break it down, you should do these things in practice mode when labbing stances.

1. What are opponent's stances? Leo has 2 stances. BOK and KNK
2. What moves go into opponent's stances? KNK is f4, b1,4..., etc.
3. What is the risk-reward ratio of stance moves?

I read this once before, but when you're playing matches, find the best way to skew the risk-reward ratio in your favor. For example, an intermediate player uses pokes incorrectly to deal damage. An advanced player uses pokes to set-up a play so that they know when the opponent wishes to attack, crouch, step, and so they're able to capitalize on it with a launch.

In stance cases, for example Reina. If a Reina uses ff2 pressure into stance (+1 on block), the best option is actually to duck or challenge her. It seems counter-intuitive, but it's actually not. Because, if you ducked or challenged her the first time and launched her, she will be more likely to use the mid options or throw out the high, etc. if you challenged her. If she uses the mid options, she has a potential of getting launched or getting punished hard.

The worst option to ever do in her stance is to block without reacting. You either challenge her, sidestep, or go for the duck. It also depends on how you conditioned her to play. But, never stand there eating stance pressure without getting information. Most Reina players are lazy and will go for the high attack after Sentai stance.

This goes for any stance character and it becomes a mind-game for both players. The better player will still manage to figure out a way to edge out a win. Now, some stances have better risk-reward ratio than others, and it adds extra spice to most characters, including Shaheen.

However, one thing is, don't over-complicate Tekken 8 or overwhelm yourself. You don't have to lab every single character, especially if you aren't having trouble with them. Only with the things you cannot adapt to.
#4
Super Cosmic Space Magnet Mar 6, 2024 @ 5:19pm 
Originally posted by Petro:
As a Leo player, this was nice to watch.
I really dont need to worry so much about f4 canceling, this gameplan seems solid enough

Heck, it worked on me - and I've apparently conned my way into purple :'D Good luck on your journey!
#5
=\[P]/= Mar 6, 2024 @ 6:09pm 
i've practice fuzzy guarding his/her KNK mixup
then found out that they can be delayed and my fuzzy go waste :(
#6
天佑中共🐥the light Mar 6, 2024 @ 7:53pm 
more backdash, duck strings
also turn on hit properties (and frame data myb) when u recording replays so u can rewatch and remember when to duck punish

rly need Tekken 8 ver of this.. aft-sensei said hes pretty busy so can someone do it for the bois?
#7
=\[P]/= Mar 6, 2024 @ 9:10pm 
Originally posted by 天佑中共🐥The Wisdom of the Empire:
more backdash, duck strings
also turn on hit properties (and frame data myb) when u recording replays so u can rewatch and remember when to duck punish

rly need Tekken 8 ver of this.. aft-sensei said hes pretty busy so can someone do it for the bois?
whoa, that playlist is really good O_O
#8
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TEKKEN 8 > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Mar 6, 2024 @ 2:48pm
Posts: 8

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