GHOST AI way too weak ?

[ShuXamR]

what are your thoughts on the AI ? I'v tried against best players and to me the AI can't block anything even with low kicks @28 frames... AI is way way too weak to me, and I'm pretty bad player.. what are your thoughts on this ?

[OrigamiKingdom]

It's interesting. They seem to be better at playing out patterns, but they don't really seem to have a great understanding of why they are being used. Spacing and time awareness seem low to non-existent.

It probably aligns better for aggressive, mid skill players that are just flowcharting than high level players. I don't see it being able to adopt their situational awareness and applying the "Why" they are doing what they are doing.

It's still cool to have a bunch of different behaviors for the CPU's. The built in ones weren't that hard and you only got one per char, so this is a kind of step up, even if they aren't that hard overall

[C1REX]

AI ghosts are sadly disappointing.
It can replicate some combos or attack patterns but that’s about it. It has no defense and no brain.

[ok i pull up]

Maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the ghost would collect data from your online performance. But my ghost did not do any flowcharts or combos i did online, only the stuffs i "train" it offline.

I downloaded some pro ghosts and i was really excited, all of them were around Tekken God ranks. Unfortunately they performed as if they were not "trained" yet.

Also the ghost i trained in the demo seemed a lot stronger. Maybe ghosts are nerfed?

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Originally posted by Electric_Fist:

Maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the ghost would collect data from your online performance. But my ghost did not do any flowcharts or combos i did online, only the stuffs i "train" it offline.

I downloaded some pro ghosts and i was really excited, all of them were around Tekken God ranks. Unfortunately they performed as if they were not "trained" yet.

Also the ghost i trained in the demo seemed a lot stronger. Maybe ghosts are nerfed?

Yeah, what I did was I trained mine to fight a mirror match against my character, so it figured out patterns of how I played with that character. However, if you switch to another character, it throws off the pattern and you kind of have to train it some more.

It does learn when you use certain moves against it, and it does do punishment if you punish it. And this includes launchers and wall combos. Basically, I had to play mine for an hour for it to play somewhat competent. Afterwards, it picked up on my timing and spacing habits, which was quite hilarious. However, if you're playing another person's ghost, it can't reliably learn if it is constantly being bombarded with random factors such as different characters, opponent tendencies, etc. So, it'd naturally come of as an amalgamation of sporadic attack patterns and sequences. I found it lackluster when I realized that the ghost didn't understand how to fight certain patterns of attack; but, that only makes sense, because at a higher-level, those techniques would get someone killed, so those patterns were never in-grained in the ghost's defensive capabilities, so to speak.

This is my guess, I suppose.

[Castyles]

Some ghosts are braindead while others make you run for your money.

It also depends if you're good with a character or just plain bad with another (or is just learning). Obviously that sort of thing can give you advantages against them or disavantages.

[Necropants]

I was playing around with my own ghost, in a mirror match it went from giving me a challenge one day then I tried it again recently and it had been demoted to beginner and was completely brain dead again. I think the system has some bugs right now.

[Cpt Obvious]

There are definitely some strong ghosts you can download.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

The ghosts need data on different situations to be able to deal with them.

"I did a snake edge and the ghost didn't block it", cool, how many snake edges do you think are even used at high ranks where players can block them on reaction? Yea...if the player doesn't have to deal with any, the ghost itself won't have data on how to deal with one.

Also don't forget that right now, a lot of people in the higher ranks are boosting, so their ghost is trash because there's not much gameplay going on for data to be collected.

The blue ranks is where you'll find the majority of good players, not the god ranks.

[comatosedragon]

It's weird. My offline 'Trained' ghost totally ripped me a new one this morning, he was doing moves I don't even know how to do consistently yet.

[Skiptro]

fighting game ai either read your inputs and stuff/block everything you do or they are brain dead. I'm glad they didn't make the ghosts input read because it is really cheap, but the result of that is that they are a little braindead.

here is a little summary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX1hKEQznAs

it is novel but not as advanced as they hyped it up to be or as we think.

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Originally posted by Electric_Fist:

Maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the ghost would collect data from your online performance. But my ghost did not do any flowcharts or combos i did online, only the stuffs i "train" it offline.

I downloaded some pro ghosts and i was really excited, all of them were around Tekken God ranks. Unfortunately they performed as if they were not "trained" yet.

Also the ghost i trained in the demo seemed a lot stronger. Maybe ghosts are nerfed?

Yeah, what I did was I trained mine to fight a mirror match against my character, so it figured out patterns of how I played with that character. However, if you switch to another character, it throws off the pattern and you kind of have to train it some more.

It does learn when you use certain moves against it, and it does do punishment if you punish it. And this includes launchers and wall combos. Basically, I had to play mine for an hour for it to play somewhat competent. Afterwards, it picked up on my timing and spacing habits, which was quite hilarious. However, if you're playing another person's ghost, it can't reliably learn if it is constantly being bombarded with random factors such as different characters, opponent tendencies, etc. So, it'd naturally come of as an amalgamation of sporadic attack patterns and sequences. I found it lackluster when I realized that the ghost didn't understand how to fight certain patterns of attack; but, that only makes sense, because at a higher-level, those techniques would get someone killed, so those patterns were never in-grained in the ghost's defensive capabilities, so to speak.

This is my guess, I suppose.

I noticed this too the more data it collected on my Jun the more competent it got. I've now got it to the point that my Jun bot can give me a run for my money when I play on some of my other characters. For sure could get better but I love this feature.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

I played against my ghost offline for about five hours and it finally beat me. Felt pretty awesome.

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

I played against my ghost offline for about five hours and it finally beat me. Felt pretty awesome.

Lol yeah i wish more fighting games would give us this feature.

[PharaohGrim]

uh.. depends. you have to actually train your ghost .. if the top players only did one quick session yea youll body it. i trained mine for a while and my friends having issues beating my ghost. you have to train it to do lows and when to do lows. it takes a while and i spent a few hrs with mine.

[Rusty]

Originally posted by Cpt Obvious:

There are definitely some strong ghosts you can download.

Do you think you'd be allowed to share, or would that violate privacy rules?