What does it mean to "understand frames"?

[Wahooka]

I watched a Tekken 8 youtube coaching video, and the guy said that you can do all sorts of combos and strings of attacks against a beginner that wouldn't work normal because beginners don't understand frames.

What does this mean exactly, and how does one learn frames?

[Make otgf -9 pls]

Basically every move has its frames frames on hit/block/couter hit

If you know startup of the move and how good/bad it is on block hit etc you can calculate with frame data when you can press or risk reward of certain moves

[Make otgf -9 pls]

Originally posted by Wahooka:

I watched a Tekken 8 youtube coaching video, and the guy said that you can do all sorts of combos and strings of attacks against a beginner that wouldn't work normal because beginners don't understand frames.

What does this mean exactly, and how does one learn frames?

So for example kazuya has 14f homing mid which on counter hit launches and i can abuse it in low ranks cause they won't punish it but if you see that this moves is -12 and understand your char punishers then you apply your 10f 11f or 12f punisher

[Wahooka]

Not sure I fully understand what you just said, lol

Can you put it in newbie language?

Anyhow, I know that each Tekken character has 100 moves, and there are like 30 characters, so that means you need to memorize the frame rate for 3,000 moves?

Am I wrong?

[progste]

Frames = how fast is a move.
Game is 60 fps so if something is 30 frames it would take half a second.

Startup frames: how much from pressing a button to the move hitting.
On block frames: how long it takes to recover after said move is blocked, usually minus frames (you can't do anything for x frames so they can hit you back), sometimes +frames (the opponent is the one who has to recover even though he blocked).
On hit: similar to on block but usually more plus frames.

Punishment: when you block a move and the opponent is at minus you can answer with a fast enough move to get a guaranteed hit, ideally the biggest move you can do in those frames.

You don't need to memorize all the moves, just the most important and most used ones.
you should try to remember a couple punishes for each character.

[Keeterz]

Simply put, it's understanding how fast certain moves are to start up, how long you can press your advantage if the move hits or is blocked, and how long a move is stuck in recovery animation that you can't act out of when the move misses or is blocked.

People call it frames in reference to the fact that the game runs at 60 frames per second, so it's easy to quantify how fast a move is based on the number of frames a move takes to start up (as well as how many frames a move gets of advantage or disadvantage state on hit/block/whiff). Knowing the exact numbers of the frame data of specific moves IS very helpful to categorize different types of attacks and how to deal with them, but for now just understand that some moves will beat out others in specific situations because they will come out faster.

PhiDX has some guides on Youtube regarding basic frame data and frame traps that would be good to watch to understand what all of that means. Those guides (among others as well) would be a great place to start to understand the basic concepts (and hopefully make the numbers look less scary!)

[Mavi]

It's also explained visually as part of that video:

https://youtu.be/_R0hbe8HZj0

[MOSLEY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QHLD8vOSQ&t=498s&ab_channel=Rubbish

This video explains frame data fairly well.

[Estranged]

https://youtu.be/ZW7vRNnCgDc?si=E0jCcVODjgwhKV0W

[Keeterz]

Originally posted by Wahooka:

Anyhow, I know that each Tekken character has 100 moves, and there are like 30 characters, so that means you need to memorize the frame rate for 3,000 moves?

If you are SUPER nerdy at the game you probably could lol, but the truth is 99% of the time most characters use like 10-20 moves at most regularly (a lot of stuff is either really situational or just combo filler). It's not necessary to memorize frame data for all moves, mainly because many moves will share universal qualities (many moves will have certain start up speed or disadvantage on block).

[MessiahofMelons]

Heres the easy mode version for you.

Your opponent does a big punch on you. If it hit he would have done a combo. But you blocked it. Your opponent is now not able to block for a while because you blocked this big slow move. You can hit him with a move that is as fast as he is now slow.

The translation of that in frames is. He uses a bg llig launching punch. You block it. You are now + 16 and he is -16. This means he can't block for 16 frames. So you can hit him with any move that is 16 or faster.

You don't need to know the frames. Just understand that some moves are more punishable than others. Sometimes you have to jab.

[D2 = Failed Electric.]

Originally posted by MessiahofMelons:

Heres the easy mode version for you.

Your opponent does a big punch on you. If it hit he would have done a combo. But you blocked it. Your opponent is now not able to block for a while because you blocked this big slow move. You can hit him with a move that is as fast as he is now slow.

The translation of that in frames is. He uses a bg llig launching punch. You block it. You are now + 16 and he is -16. This means he can't block for 16 frames. So you can hit him with any move that is 16 or faster.

You don't need to know the frames. Just understand that some moves are more punishable than others. Sometimes you have to jab.

Kinda in right direction but to a noob I think it stil sounds confusing.

You know when enemy throws out a large move that is one of those juggle starters everyone whines about?

In most cases you can block these huge juggle starters and LAUNCH the enemy into your own juggle and they are not allowed to block.

That is my explanation of how frames work to noob to jumpstart the engine for them.

[Zagryzaec]

https://youtu.be/9QbU3hSQmGw?si=WvuHATn_Hi-2AYUp
This is also good to watch

[🅤🅡🅐🅤🅜🅔]

Originally posted by Wahooka:

Not sure I fully understand what you just said, lol

Can you put it in newbie language?

Anyhow, I know that each Tekken character has 100 moves, and there are like 30 characters, so that means you need to memorize the frame rate for 3,000 moves?

Am I wrong?

If you tired and don't want to watch a clip, add me, and I'll guide you, to the road of Tekken addiction.

[C1REX]

Easy mode:

Some moves have very long delay when blocked and some put more delay on the blocking character.

You don’t need to memorise everything but it’s good to know your character. If you play wisely you will always be faster than your opponent. Even if they block your certain moves you still be faster to make another attacks. This way you can put seemingly impossible to stop constant pressure.

[OrigamiKingdom]

It's a few years old, but this is a pretty long lecture on the topic with a visual representation of things about 10 min into the video that isn't too dissimilar to what they put into SF6 after this came out.

https://youtu.be/rvQks7styUM?list=PL45-KVgrSkf6CfB30eMjvcqf8O-WTByp2&t=635