Being respectful...

[Deathwing1306]

Everybody is talking here about being respectful and not to be toxic by not wanting to rematch, ki charging, etc.

But many people don't realize that spamming the auto combo stuff, grabs and rage art is disrespectful enough for one not to want a rematch, whenever I see someone use auto combos or spamming rage art whenever they are low or grabs, I automatically return to standby.

There should definitely be some kind of an option to actually get rid of these players who use Special Style because it's very unfair for some players like me, who would love to learn the game the normal way to fight against them because I am trying to remember and get hang of all the combos and timings I have learned in combo challenges, but I am constantly flying around because people are holding block all the time and then they will start spamming their auto combo button and I keep flying around the arena so I can't even try to put to test the combos I have learned because it's almost impossible to get through lol

Some kind of option to disable Special Style in the search tab would be nice, I am not sure how they would do that, the only option I can think of is that if you disable it and you get matched against someone who also has that disabled, even if you press the button to activate Special Style, it won't activate and you would have to fight the normal way and your opponent as well.

I understand that there are many new players who just want to have fun and all, but I am trying to have fun by learning all the combos myself and getting clapped every game by someone constantly spamming the same exact auto combo is just annoying. I am new player as well and it's my very first Tekken game also (it's my very first fighting game actually), but I would like to learn to play the game how it's supposed to be played and having some kind of disable option for Special Style would be amazing.

[Ross]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by Ross:

I mean if you KNOW they're panic spamming Rage Art it's probably in your best interest to not mash and just wait. Throw out a string that's plus, let the panic Rage Art animation play out and then punish. I believe Rage Arts are -13? So get a combo that's a -13 punish and seal the deal -- it's a free win.

I do that, but I always get caught in it on my very first game because I keep believing that I am going to meet someone respectful enough not to use it, but I am not right most of the time.

Whenever someone spams the rage art after I know they are going to spam that, I am just going to block and grab attack so it's eye for an eye, but the rage art isn't really that big of a deal compared to the auto combo stuff.

I'm not a huge fan of the Rage Art supers in Tekken but at the same time this is sort of in-line with what playing Tekken is like. You lose a round by something you get caught out by and then you keep that in mind in the next rounds. It could be a Rage Art but it could also be a Guard Crush, a Throw, a low sweep, a mixup string etc. Rage Art is just another tool to look out for.

And honestly, this is from my own experience but I haven't really had any trouble with the Special Style? From what I understand the strings they give you aren't the safest and don't do that much damage.

If you're losing to Special Style opponents then I think there's some level of self inflicting mind games where you're getting tilted when someone uses Special Style. Ultimately don't stress too much over it and clean up your own gameplay and you'll soon find Special Style nothing to really worry about.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

It is. You do less damage, you lose combo conversion and adaptation due to wall distance, you lose freedom of self expression, you lose options like breaking or no breaking floors or walls, more wall carry or more damage. And so on.

Do you think that as a new player, I care about some kind of wall stuff ? I can't even do normal combos properly, I don't really care about high level stuff like that lol, I don't even know how to break walls or floor, I always manage to pull it off by accident.

Also, less damage, but it's consistent so in the end, it's much more damage than one might think. If you don't use Special Style, you can fu** up your combo and do like 10 damage, you can't really fu** it up with Special Style.

Well if you care about what makes Tekken really fun and unique you should switch to proper mode and learn like a Chad.

[Deathwing1306]

Originally posted by Norbac:

Originally posted by life speedrun:

this ^

Forgot to say that i'm new as well. I know it sucks having to play x games vs ai before you feel ready, but it is what it is.

I have started playing against real players at almost 30 hours of play time, I have practiced with my character, did combo challenges, some punishment challenges, did the story mode, arcade quest, beaten ALL of the ghosts in super ghost battles, did ALL of the character episodes, even watched some YT video, but watching YT videos about your character won't actually teach you much, you have to learn in by playing, not by watching and here we are... I have no idea how to play against these players with Special Style on because I don't want to just spam the attack buttons, I actually want to get a feel for each attack combination, but I keep getting spammed by all kinds of low attacks, grabs, rage arts and special style auto combos.

I don't think that these players I am getting matched against actually want to understand the game, I feel like they just want to spam everything possible to just win.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

As a new player trying to learn Yoshimitsu and play the game the hard way, it's very annoying to play against players who use the assisted controls because, it might have some kind of disadvantage, but in the end, I am new player as well and there is almost 100% chance I am going to get clapped with the opponent being left at even like 50% HP because I just am not able to try to get hang of the combos I learned in combo challenges. I have finished all of the combo challenges for Yoshimitsu, whenever I am doing the combo challenges I can understand the timings and what am I supposed to do, but doing it in a real fight is very difficult, especially against someone who won't even let you breathe for a bit because they are busy mashing their auto combo button.

I can understand that. The precious moments where you even do get a launcher mean you suddenly have to scramble through your brain to try to remember what the right combo path is~ It really is a wonderful feeling when you finally get to 'unlock' the character and start expressing yourself through their movekit, so keep at it!

Yoshimitsu is absolutely the gold standard when it comes to player expression because of his breadth of bizarre and janky tools. If you'd like to see what he can do in the hands of a creative player, check out EyeMusician on Youtube. He's got a very wild and party-like playstyle, which makes his matches often very entertaining. Might give you some ideas about how you can play him too!

[Deathwing1306]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Do you think that as a new player, I care about some kind of wall stuff ? I can't even do normal combos properly, I don't really care about high level stuff like that lol, I don't even know how to break walls or floor, I always manage to pull it off by accident.

Also, less damage, but it's consistent so in the end, it's much more damage than one might think. If you don't use Special Style, you can fu** up your combo and do like 10 damage, you can't really fu** it up with Special Style.

Well if you care about what makes Tekken really fun and unique you should switch to proper mode and learn like a Chad.

Like a "Chad" ?

You mean the country ? :) lol

[Ross]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Welcome welcome! 7 was my first game and I remember finding it very overwhelming. We didn't have Special Style, but the discourse around what counts as toxic behaviour in matches was very much alive and well (and completely unchanged from how we read it here in 8 too). The way I came to view the game is that it's a journey of personal progress - you're developing yourself and your ability to act through your character. It'll have its low points, but the initial goal is to reach a stage where you no longer have to consciously think about what you want to do with your character - it just becomes instinctive muscle memory.

Special Style lowers the floor to entry to the game, so I can understand its inclusion. It lets people who are brand new to the game still get to do exciting actions with their characters, but doesn't provide intermediate players with any advantages. Heck, using Special style restricts you to only having access to 5-6 moves from your usual moveset anyway - severely limiting the amount of control you have over your character.

A brand new player using Special Style will have a huge advantage over a player trying to learn full control, yes, but you'll definitely be learning more from the experience and improving yourself more for each game you play. Well done for picking the tougher road, and good luck on your journey!

That is a very nice reply, thank you for that.

As a new player trying to learn Yoshimitsu and play the game the hard way, it's very annoying to play against players who use the assisted controls because, it might have some kind of disadvantage, but in the end, I am new player as well and there is almost 100% chance I am going to get clapped with the opponent being left at even like 50% HP because I just am not able to try to get hang of the combos I learned in combo challenges. I have finished all of the combo challenges for Yoshimitsu, whenever I am doing the combo challenges I can understand the timings and what am I supposed to do, but doing it in a real fight is very difficult, especially against someone who won't even let you breathe for a bit because they are busy mashing their auto combo button.

So this is a common pitfall new players fall into. You might practice combos and damaging punishing strings but if you're still new to the game and don't know the fundamentals of the game you're going to have trouble.

This might sound dumb as hell but learn how to BLOCK. From what I'm reading it sounds like you've learned some combos that you can't do consistently but you run up to people and throw out the starters of that combo and hope for the best.

What you want to do is to sometimes block and wait for an opportunity to punish. Use the Punishment Training in Practice Mode to get a good idea of what strings you can use to punish. You want to also do pokes and throw out buttons that check your opponent from doing what they want to do. Sidestep dodges, grabs etc.

Tekken isn't a game purely about throwing out combos, it's very much about seeing your opponent's patterns and punishing the hell out of them. Maybe even more than most fighting games.

[Norbac]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by Norbac:

Forgot to say that i'm new as well. I know it sucks having to play x games vs ai before you feel ready, but it is what it is.

I have started playing against real players at almost 30 hours of play time, I have practiced with my character, did combo challenges, some punishment challenges, did the story mode, arcade quest, beaten ALL of the ghosts in super ghost battles, did ALL of the character episodes, even watched some YT video, but watching YT videos about your character won't actually teach you much, you have to learn in by playing, not by watching and here we are... I have no idea how to play against these players with Special Style on because I don't want to just spam the attack buttons, I actually want to get a feel for each attack combination, but I keep getting spammed by all kinds of low attacks, grabs, rage arts and special style auto combos.

I don't think that these players I am getting matched against actually want to understand the game, I feel like they just want to spam everything possible to just win.

You CAN'T counter them yet because that requieres a crapload of hours and knowledge. For now spam your strings are often as they do, and as you rank up you should see it less and less often because people start getting a good grasp of punishing mindless spam.

[Ross]

A wise philosopher once said :

"If they win by spamming moves, you're spamming mistakes."

[-★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-]

Originally posted by Ross:

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

That is a very nice reply, thank you for that.

As a new player trying to learn Yoshimitsu and play the game the hard way, it's very annoying to play against players who use the assisted controls because, it might have some kind of disadvantage, but in the end, I am new player as well and there is almost 100% chance I am going to get clapped with the opponent being left at even like 50% HP because I just am not able to try to get hang of the combos I learned in combo challenges. I have finished all of the combo challenges for Yoshimitsu, whenever I am doing the combo challenges I can understand the timings and what am I supposed to do, but doing it in a real fight is very difficult, especially against someone who won't even let you breathe for a bit because they are busy mashing their auto combo button.

So this is a common pitfall new players fall into. You might practice combos and damaging punishing strings but if you're still new to the game and don't know the fundamentals of the game you're going to have trouble.

This might sound dumb as hell but learn how to BLOCK. From what I'm reading it sounds like you've learned some combos that you can't do consistently but you run up to people and throw out the starters of that combo and hope for the best.

What you want to do is to sometimes block and wait for an opportunity to punish. Use the Punishment Training in Practice Mode to get a good idea of what strings you can use to punish. You want to also do pokes and throw out buttons that check your opponent from doing what they want to do. Sidestep dodges, grabs etc.

Tekken isn't a game purely about throwing out combos, it's very much about seeing your opponent's patterns and punishing the hell out of them. Maybe even more than most fighting games.

I agree, I think learning the fast attacks and some launchers are more important. After losing maybe 20 games where you frequently got 5+ launchers in is a better time to move on to combo training. Just block and avoid and learn the launch, fast attack to push spammers off, combo comes later. Getting used to landing a launch is far more useful than worrying about what comes after.

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

Well if you care about what makes Tekken really fun and unique you should switch to proper mode and learn like a Chad.

Like a "Chad" ?

You mean the country ? :) lol

I mean DA MAN.

Seriously learning is one of most enjoyable process of Tekken. Just don't force yourself. Start from staple combos.

[-★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-]

Originally posted by Norbac:

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

I have started playing against real players at almost 30 hours of play time, I have practiced with my character, did combo challenges, some punishment challenges, did the story mode, arcade quest, beaten ALL of the ghosts in super ghost battles, did ALL of the character episodes, even watched some YT video, but watching YT videos about your character won't actually teach you much, you have to learn in by playing, not by watching and here we are... I have no idea how to play against these players with Special Style on because I don't want to just spam the attack buttons, I actually want to get a feel for each attack combination, but I keep getting spammed by all kinds of low attacks, grabs, rage arts and special style auto combos.

I don't think that these players I am getting matched against actually want to understand the game, I feel like they just want to spam everything possible to just win.

You CAN'T counter them yet because that requieres a crapload of hours and knowledge. For now spam your strings are often as they do, and as you rank up you should see it less and less often because people start getting a good grasp of punishing mindless spam.

They are going to spam at all ranks if you let them, the only way to stop is to know how to stop them. It's about teaching your enemy to respect your space. Look for gaps and do the fast attack, sometimes you'll be wrong, it's part of learning. I'm often wrong with the timing, but people habitually repeat themselves in matches so there's usually always another chance to practice. They will if it worked the first time.

[Deathwing1306]

Originally posted by -★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-:

Originally posted by Ross:

So this is a common pitfall new players fall into. You might practice combos and damaging punishing strings but if you're still new to the game and don't know the fundamentals of the game you're going to have trouble.

This might sound dumb as hell but learn how to BLOCK. From what I'm reading it sounds like you've learned some combos that you can't do consistently but you run up to people and throw out the starters of that combo and hope for the best.

What you want to do is to sometimes block and wait for an opportunity to punish. Use the Punishment Training in Practice Mode to get a good idea of what strings you can use to punish. You want to also do pokes and throw out buttons that check your opponent from doing what they want to do. Sidestep dodges, grabs etc.

Tekken isn't a game purely about throwing out combos, it's very much about seeing your opponent's patterns and punishing the hell out of them. Maybe even more than most fighting games.

I agree, I think learning the fast attacks and some launchers are more important. After losing maybe 20 games where you frequently got 5+ launchers in is a better time to move on to combo training. Just block and avoid and learn the launch, fast attack to push spammers off, combo comes later. Getting used to landing a launch is far more useful than worrying about what comes after.

The only launches I know of for Yoshimitsu are either from crouch or when rising and that is pretty much impossible for me to do against most players so I just want to think of some other ways to do some damage by not launching them to the air because I just can't do it in time lol.

[-★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by -★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-:

I agree, I think learning the fast attacks and some launchers are more important. After losing maybe 20 games where you frequently got 5+ launchers in is a better time to move on to combo training. Just block and avoid and learn the launch, fast attack to push spammers off, combo comes later. Getting used to landing a launch is far more useful than worrying about what comes after.

The only launches I know of for Yoshimitsu are either from crouch or when rising and that is pretty much impossible for me to do against most players so I just want to think of some other ways to do some damage by not launching them to the air because I just can't do it in time lol.

If you try ducking a lot in a match you'll start to notice all the highs go over you. Mids are dangerous, but it's fun to see and get a feel for when you can do those types of launchers. Entering a match with learning in mind will help, losing is part of the process.

His other launchers are df2, uf3, and ss2. It's good to sprinkle them in during your turn after a fast poke, or after blocking a rage art.

[ANDY]

If the enemy is overly trigger happy with Rage Arts, just block until they make a bad call and then retaliate with a decently quick move or simply throw them since throws are untechable when done on an enemy who's still recovering from an attack. I've won plenty of matches by just hanging back and letting the opponent dig their own grave from their desire to cash out their Rage.

If opponents are spamming grabs, just hit 'em since they aren't trying to put you on the defensive to set you up for grabs in the first place. Grabs on their own are nothing to be afraid of. You'll need to be able to recognize which hand the opponent is using to break their throws if they're actually rushing you down, but spamming is relying solely on one single move, which can be easily overcome without the need to even train.

You've got three rounds and two full matches to win, so don't be discouraged if you're caught off guard by an unexpectedly mindless, one-note tactic early on. Just consider what you need to look out for and adapt. There are plenty of guides out there that'll teach you exactly what you can do to quickly overcome these common scenarios, and it's not as if you need to dedicate time to learning every tactic the videos cover since your opponents aren't trying to vary up their playstyle to counter you in the first place.

In fact, the game's replay feature will straight-up inform you on easy ways to punish your opponent's mistakes if they aren't respecting your advantageous moves as well as how to break their grabs, so simply going through a replay after you felt helplessly stuck during a match will quickly inform you on what you can do if the same situation repeats itself.

Finally, this game's training mode gives you a complete rundown of things like the startup frames of a move and whether using it leaves you with a plus-frame advantage that'll allow you to continue your turn after the move hits or is blocked with another move that has suitably fast startup frames. Familiarize yourself with which moves can be thrown out safely to keep up pressure and which moves need to be aimed cautiously to avoid getting punished. A fast move will rarely let you hit-confirm into a full combo, but it will make your opponent hesitate on just throwing out mindless barrages of moves carelessly, which gives you more room to breathe. This is what the FGC is actually talking about when the term "respect" comes up: showing the opponent that they need to consider the tools at your disposal before making a choice.

Nobody likes every aspect of a fighter, but having a willingness to take a step back and adapt with the help of the in-game information and especially those around you is part of the process. You aren't alone.

[ARTSQ]

Originally posted by Deathwing1306:

Originally posted by ★Miami★George★:

Special style is a handicap

Are you new to fighters?

I am very new to fighting games, my very first one (like I mentioned in the post), but I don't think that spamming triangle or whatever it is to perform a combo which does pretty decent damage with just spamming one button is a handicap tbh.

Thing is - the moves that autoinput uses are very punishable. So if you block them, you can do more damage yourself. And combos are also far from being optimal