Tekken 8: Claudio needs a buff

[Gagron]

For some credibility, T7 was my first fighting game and I got to Ryujin rank 8 months ago. Played religiously for about 2 years in the Asia server side of the world. In T8 I'm Shinryu rank.

Claudio in T7 was considered by many to be A tier so part of the top 20 characters. Now he's probably Trash tier. At the moment he's very rough to play and ironically kuma/panda is better. This sucks for me because i put so much theory crafting into him. And I completely love his aesthetic. But every time I play him now I get further traumatized by how much of a shadow he's become.

Changes:
In T8 I've gone over his movelist and frame data a couple of times. Overall a pretty hard nerf. about "20 moves" affected negatively by removal entirely, removal of effect, hitbox weakening, worse tracking, removal of most counterhitting moves, more negative frames on block on many core moves and/or pressure tools with increase push back which make them not as good for follow up pressure. As for the positive changes they are mediocre ( about 2 moves frame buff). Even his heat options is subpar compared to other characters like full screen fast heat moves.

What makes the changes worse is that Claudio only had 50 moves to begin with. This wouldnt be as bad if he had 100 moves or 200.

I will probably make a video detailing exact frames and changes because of how much I am grieving.

My take away:

His poke + stagger game is terrible in T8 compared to T7
counter hit game pretty much almost gone in T8 compared to T7
His neutral game range nerfed slightly* in T8 compared to T7
No low launcher or hell sweep in T8 compared to T7
Grabbing game still basic
basic df+1 nerfed worse now in T8 compared to T7
more much more

They completely trashed his identity which is mids range and neutral game control by giving 50% of the current cast some good range options either through heat or actual moves. Then they further the issue by nerfing high neutral tools slightly and removing one really good neutral move ff 1+2. The most basic options are weaken severely without giving sufficient alternatives. For example usually when characters are given weak lows, historically for example dragonuv, the pressure game with mids are enhanced and/or alternatively grabs. This is not the case with Claudio In T8.

Please help reach the Devs about this. I'm losing my mind somewhat playing him. But I cant stop because I'm a character loyalist.

Feeling like a T-700 terminator model fighting T-1000. Have to be a 5 head to win some make ups while other people are just unga bunga still with a 50% chance of winning.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

I'm not sure that I agree with this sentiment, but I used to play him during like season 2 of T7, and in T8, he has to be played a little differently.

Understand, the devs wanted him to pressure hard with FFF2 being more accessible, and they made his ff4 into -1 for this reason. This allows Claudio a new form or pressure. I'm sure it wasn't -1 in T7.

He still has 2,1 to keep opponents checked. He gained a new 14 frame mid, high in 4,1 that gives starburst. F3 is neutral on block and if CH gives free 4,1 into heat engage.

Basically they want you to use this move combined with ff4 and ff2 as pressure tools. Again, you still have 2,1 if you want to do some checking, etc.

His ss4 low is no slouch either, it puts opponent crouch and +6. He has f4 which gives a meaty +4 on block and crouches opponent.

In heat, he basically gets a free f1+2,1+2, twice and power-up on his other abilities.

Still sports one of the best whiff punishers in the game with u/f4. Still hit confirmable d/f3,1. D2,2 is now NCC (-13 on block), so another low poke besides d/b3,4 here. D/b2,1 is now -9 on block so you can stuff offense without worrying about getting punished, or use it to steal your turn. Still has b1 pressure. B3,3 and d/f2 still exist to counter-hit opponents.

Has a new high-crushing mid in u/f2 that goes into heat engager. u/f3 puts opponent crouching, is +2 on block and deals chip damage.

He seems pretty good to me. A lot of these moves kind of put opponent on crouch so they cannot continually back-dash against him. I like his changes. Combine that with his new kit, of course he's not like T7 Claudio.

edit.

[progste]

I've seen a couple of online tournaments where Claudio was doing well, he seems to have insane pressure and chip damage with good launchers and combo damage

[Gagron]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

I'm not sure that I agree with this sentiment, but I used to play him during like season 2 of T7, and in T8, he has to be played a little differently.

Understand, the devs wanted him to pressure hard with FFF2 being more accessible, and they made his ff4 into -1 for this reason. This allows Claudio a new form or pressure. I'm sure it wasn't -1 in T7.

He still has 2,1 to keep opponents checked. He gained a new 14 frame mid, high in 4,1 that gives starburst. F3 is neutral on block and if CH gives free 4,1 into heat engage.

Basically they want you to use this move combined with ff4 and ff2 as pressure tools. Again, you still have 2,1 if you want to do some checking, etc.

His ss4 low is no slouch either, it puts opponent crouch and +6. He has f4 which gives a meaty +4 on block and crouches opponent.

In heat, he basically gets a free f1+2,1+2, twice and power-up on his other abilities.

Still sports one of the best whiff punishers in the game with u/f4. Still hit confirmable d/f3,1. D2,2 is now NCC (-13 on block), so another low poke besides d/b3,4 here. D/b2,1 is now -9 on block so you can stuff offense without worrying about getting punished, or use it to steal your turn. Still has b1 pressure. B3,3 and d/f2 still exist to counter-hit opponents.

Has a new high-crushing mid in u/f2 that goes into heat engager. u/f3 puts opponent crouching, is +2 on block and deals chip damage.

He seems pretty good to me. A lot of these moves kind of put opponent on crouch so they cannot continually back-dash against him. I like his changes. Combine that with his new kit, of course he's not like T7 Claudio.

edit.

This comment to me means you haven't seen his movelist nerfs. It's not a matter of opinion when I said 20 moves nerfed and 2 moves with mini buff. The more accessible running 2 doesn't count as a buff because everyone has more accessible running 2. Please do ur research before commenting. Go through moves 1 -55. I'll write the full nerfs later but this is a pretty uninformed comment

[Gagron]

Originally posted by progste:

I've seen a couple of online tournaments where Claudio was doing well, he seems to have insane pressure and chip damage with good launchers and combo damage

He doesn't have insane pressure. His pressure actually got nerfed while most of the other characters got buffed which is a shadow nerf. His chip damage is average compared to other characters ATM. There also hasn't been any T8 pro tourneys yet so "couple of online tourneys" doesn't mean much.

Last time I checked I played the character every other day in Asia server for last 2 years. Got ryujin with him, probably lab 600 practice hours. Can you say the same when you make these casual comments? Look at the movelist and compare please to T7 at least. For every 1 buff or new positiveish addition, there's like 3 nerfs somewhere else. The nerfs are overwhelming.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Originally posted by Gagron:

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

I'm not sure that I agree with this sentiment, but I used to play him during like season 2 of T7, and in T8, he has to be played a little differently.

Understand, the devs wanted him to pressure hard with FFF2 being more accessible, and they made his ff4 into -1 for this reason. This allows Claudio a new form or pressure. I'm sure it wasn't -1 in T7.

He still has 2,1 to keep opponents checked. He gained a new 14 frame mid, high in 4,1 that gives starburst. F3 is neutral on block and if CH gives free 4,1 into heat engage.

Basically they want you to use this move combined with ff4 and ff2 as pressure tools. Again, you still have 2,1 if you want to do some checking, etc.

His ss4 low is no slouch either, it puts opponent crouch and +6. He has f4 which gives a meaty +4 on block and crouches opponent.

In heat, he basically gets a free f1+2,1+2, twice and power-up on his other abilities.

Still sports one of the best whiff punishers in the game with u/f4. Still hit confirmable d/f3,1. D2,2 is now NCC (-13 on block), so another low poke besides d/b3,4 here. D/b2,1 is now -9 on block so you can stuff offense without worrying about getting punished, or use it to steal your turn. Still has b1 pressure. B3,3 and d/f2 still exist to counter-hit opponents.

Has a new high-crushing mid in u/f2 that goes into heat engager. u/f3 puts opponent crouching, is +2 on block and deals chip damage.

He seems pretty good to me. A lot of these moves kind of put opponent on crouch so they cannot continually back-dash against him. I like his changes. Combine that with his new kit, of course he's not like T7 Claudio.

edit.

This comment to me means you haven't seen his movelist nerfs. It's not a matter of opinion when I said 20 moves nerfed and 2 moves with mini buff. The more accessible running 2 doesn't count as a buff because everyone has more accessible running 2. Please do ur research before commenting. Go through moves 1 -55. I'll write the full nerfs later but this is a pretty uninformed comment

It isn't, I went over the move-list. Also, you don't realize how good his running 2 is compared to most. It fits his playstyle, especially with the T8 mechanics. You can write all the nerfs you want, but it doesn't change the fact that his kit works really well with T8 heat engagers and chip damage. Because he is good.

[Diamond Girls]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Originally posted by Gagron:

This comment to me means you haven't seen his movelist nerfs. It's not a matter of opinion when I said 20 moves nerfed and 2 moves with mini buff. The more accessible running 2 doesn't count as a buff because everyone has more accessible running 2. Please do ur research before commenting. Go through moves 1 -55. I'll write the full nerfs later but this is a pretty uninformed comment

It isn't, I went over the move-list. Also, you don't realize how good his running 2 is compared to most. It fits his playstyle, especially with the T8 mechanics. You can write all the nerfs you want, but it doesn't change the fact that his kit works really well with T8 heat engagers and chip damage. Because he is good.

His running 2 still high, no?

[Gagron]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Originally posted by Gagron:

This comment to me means you haven't seen his movelist nerfs. It's not a matter of opinion when I said 20 moves nerfed and 2 moves with mini buff. The more accessible running 2 doesn't count as a buff because everyone has more accessible running 2. Please do ur research before commenting. Go through moves 1 -55. I'll write the full nerfs later but this is a pretty uninformed comment

It isn't, I went over the move-list. Also, you don't realize how good his running 2 is compared to most. It fits his playstyle, especially with the T8 mechanics. You can write all the nerfs you want, but it doesn't change the fact that his kit works really well with T8 heat engagers and chip damage. Because he is good.

Again ur comment means nothing. No 1 is denying that he has good stuff. But someone is denying that he's nerfed heavily. And therefore weaker in this edition of the game. He is worst in Tekken 8 then in Tekken 7 are you willing to acknowledge that?

Ur last two comments shows your bias or that you did not check the movelist. Please name me 1 other character in Tekken 8 that received the same amount of nerfs compared to buffs ratio

[Gagron]

Originally posted by Diamond Girls:

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

It isn't, I went over the move-list. Also, you don't realize how good his running 2 is compared to most. It fits his playstyle, especially with the T8 mechanics. You can write all the nerfs you want, but it doesn't change the fact that his kit works really well with T8 heat engagers and chip damage. Because he is good.

His running 2 still high, no?

Yes it still is. At this point I'll actually make a video of the nerfs in detail. I'm tired of people not willing to understand.

[Diamond Girls]

Originally posted by Gagron:

Originally posted by Diamond Girls:

His running 2 still high, no?

Yes it still is. At this point I'll actually make a video of the nerfs in detail. I'm tired of people not willing to understand.

I used to duck his running 2 in Tekken 7 once the opponent becomes predictable. Lol

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Originally posted by Gagron:

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

It isn't, I went over the move-list. Also, you don't realize how good his running 2 is compared to most. It fits his playstyle, especially with the T8 mechanics. You can write all the nerfs you want, but it doesn't change the fact that his kit works really well with T8 heat engagers and chip damage. Because he is good.

Again ur comment means nothing. No 1 is denying that he has good stuff. But someone is denying that he's nerfed heavily. And therefore weaker in this edition of the game. He is worst in Tekken 8 then in Tekken 7 are you willing to acknowledge that?

Ur last two comments shows your bias or that you did not check the movelist. Please name me 1 other character in Tekken 8 that received the same amount of nerfs compared to buffs ratio

Alright, I'll say it again. It's a different mechanic and system, and you're complaining about how he needs a buff in T8, not that he is nerfed and "weaker than T7", and that is what I'm emphasizing on. I've already said, go ahead lament on your nerfs, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still a strong character in T8; especially with the new system and mechanics.

If your topic was "Claudio got undeserved nerfs and is too weak in T8", then yes, the topic would be different. However, you're saying: He needs a buff because he's like, and I'll quote you, "Feeling like a T-700 terminator model fighting T-1000. Have to be a 5 head to win some make ups while other people are just unga bunga still with a 50% chance of winning." Or, shifting the goalpost to "He's weaker in T8, therefore he needs a buff in T8".

Which is just plain wrong. He is still a strong character, and if you're worried that he is trash tier, I'd digress. The mechanics and system work really well for him. You underestimate it. And that is my point.

Anyway, go ahead. Write in "detail" to inform us, these nerfs, who apparently are uninformed.

[Gagron]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

Originally posted by Gagron:

Again ur comment means nothing. No 1 is denying that he has good stuff. But someone is denying that he's nerfed heavily. And therefore weaker in this edition of the game. He is worst in Tekken 8 then in Tekken 7 are you willing to acknowledge that?

Ur last two comments shows your bias or that you did not check the movelist. Please name me 1 other character in Tekken 8 that received the same amount of nerfs compared to buffs ratio

Alright, I'll say it again. It's a different mechanic and system, and you're complaining about how he needs a buff in T8, not that he is nerfed and "weaker than T7", and that is what I'm emphasizing on. I've already said, go ahead lament on your nerfs, but it doesn't change the fact that he's still a strong character in T8; especially with the new system and mechanics.

If your topic was "Claudio got undeserved nerfs and is too weak in T8", then yes, the topic would be different. However, you're saying: He needs a buff because he's like, and I'll quote you, "Feeling like a T-700 terminator model fighting T-1000. Have to be a 5 head to win some make ups while other people are just unga bunga still with a 50% chance of winning." Or, shifting the goalpost to "He's weaker in T8, therefore he needs a buff in T8".

Which is just plain wrong. He is still a strong character, and if you're worried that he is trash tier, I'd digress. The mechanics and system work really well for him. You underestimate it. And that is my point.

Anyway, go ahead. Write in "detail" to inform us, these nerfs, who apparently are uninformed.

I've read your stuff and you're still not getting it so let me help.

It's not a matter I don't know how to use the new different mechanics/ system. Or you got to play differently. I know the difference better than most. The fact that I got to red ranks within the first week of T8 launch, where all the purple and blue ranks plus above were still making their way up, speaks for itself. It's a matter of Claudio not being adapted well compared to most other characters. For example, to name the primary suspects, dragonuv, devil jin, kuma, jun, bryan, xiao yu, jack7, raven, nina who got "buffed" with new solid moves (a-s tier moves) while also receiving in my opinion a-s tier heat mechanics. Then there are newcomers like azecena, reina and victor who are ridiculously strong.

In contrast in T8 Claudio with his already extremely small kit received nerfs to like 20 moves. with like 8 of them being core moves. Each move receiving either one or multiple nerfs as I've mentioned in the original post. And his heat mechanic options are subpar in comparison to most of the above. That's the point im making. He is severely under powered at the moment.

You're kidding yourself if you think he's strong. He's low mid tier right now. And it's not an issue with the title of the post. Your suggested name or the current will still have the same content. And my terminator analogy is to point out the fact that the character did not adapt well to tekken 8. You still ignoring all the nerfs he got. And u havent answered my question of who got more nerfs in t8.

I dont underestimate him. I use im 24/7. Same in T8. I know him better than u do as u probably dont even main him.

Dont worry about it making the video already as text will be too long. But doubt ur position will change. Some people just dont want to give the benefit of the doubt.

[Gagron]

https://youtu.be/4jbSpxeCybI?si=3GWL60zgLTuQweHD

[T1g3r]

nerf Claudio

[Gagron]

Originally posted by T1g3r:

nerf Claudio

Sure but he was never A+ or S tier in Tekken 7. Surely before nerfing him, other characters that are A+ or S tier should get them first