Dragunov players are carried hard

[T1g3r]

When its "their turn" or they get a lucky launch, then they can pressure and mash non-stop, strangely always being on plus - but once they are forced to play fair Tekken or must defend they lose lmao... noobs

[Zagryzaec]

Originally posted by SEATEK The_LEFTY:

Originally posted by Hidebehind:

One of the characteristics of people on this forum who complain about a particular fighter is that they don't want to hear anything about how he can be beaten or what his weaknesses are. Despite his insane power, Dragunov is not invincible. People stubbornly ignore the fact that both Azusena made it to the finals and the only broken move they have is the WR move. So that reception was better than the entire arsenal that Dragunov had at the time. It's not like Dragunov is that strong at all.
Is Dragunov harder to beat than most other fighters? Yes! Is Dragunov a guarantee to win the fight? Oh no, no, no, no, no! This game is all about good offense and what is Dragunov's biggest problem? Defense! If Dragunov takes the lead, you're finished, but the same goes for Dragunov himself, if he makes a mistake, Eddie, for example, will just destroy him.
I realize that it's much easier to curl up in a ball and say: it's Dragunov, King, Eddie, they're undefeated, I'll just lose and complain that they're broken, even though I didn't even try to fight back. But with that attitude, Asuka, Zafina, Kuma, Paul, Kazuya and Raven will also be on the list of "undefeated" fighters.

Nobody is 100% unbeatable. But seeing this response as well as Zag's "just jab bro" is pretty funny. Nobody is "curling into a ball" about it here- many of us are just tired of all of the downplaying.

Nah, you obviously just trolling when solution is spoon fed to you and you refuse to take it.

Or do this - put pc to make bd3+4 non stop and show that it is impossible to put a jab there.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

This has to be a joke right?

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

I think Zag completely missed the point of what I said, but then again isn't that the norm by now?

The point was that he thinks Bryan's qcb3 is better than Dragunov's d/b3+4 because it's -13, while my argument was that it's not. If Bryan does qcb3 > qcb3, you can swl and not only avoid the 2nd, but get to his back for a juicy combo, however if Dragunov does d/b3+4 > d/b3+4, you're stuck, you can't move, the 2nd one is homing, you lost access to movement, and that creates a forced 50-50, you have to guess if the next one is mid or low because you lost access to movement.

The point was that Bryan's move is weaker because if it hits you, you can still move afterwards, meanwhile once Dragunov hits you with his, you're in a forced 50-50 as you can no longer move. You can't move because the 2nd is homing so your option against that is to duck, but ducking against Dragunov with how strong his mids are is...

Zag just be like "he can't do two in a row because you can jab him out of it".

If he also wans to talk interruptions, sure, let's do that.

If Dragunov does d/b3+4 > d/b3+4, you can jab him out, or if you're a character that has a 12f, you can do that too.

If Bryan does qcb3 > qcb3, you can also jab him as well, ofc, but also, if your character has a 15f d/f2, you can do that too and get a full combo.

So, in Dragunov situation, you get a jab as your interrupt reward, or a 12f if your character has it, meanwhile in the Bryan situation, except for Steve, you can get a full combo on Bryan.

But sure, Dragunov's move us weaker because it's -15 on block, as if frames on block are everything that matters on a move.

So yes, Zag is a joke. His argument? Just press at -7, nothing bad will happen.

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Speaking of Dragunov being Scrubunov, we also have this vid from PhiDX that was made earlier today, just a few hours ago, of Shadow vs Joey Fury's Dragunov.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAdjvvfjVx0

Some of things mentioned in the video, is how a lot of Dragunov's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, especially his oki mix-up, hits grounded. d/b3+4 hits grounded for +6 and 20 damage, qcf4 hits grounded for like 21 damage and even b4 hits grounded.

[Vahel]

So our favourite downplayer is still trying to say that Dragunov is weak ?!
How are you even supposed to improve if you're not acknowledging the strengths of your main ahah ! Last time it was "d2 is not tracking" and now it's "d/b3+4 is a weak low compared to Bryan's hatchet", my man... Are we playing the same game ?

[Spardacus]

Dragunov is op in high lvl, is not for noobs, beginners should try Alisa, Law or Hwoarang instead.

[Make otgf -9 pls]

Originally posted by Spardacus:

Dragunov is op in high lvl, is not for noobs, beginners should try Alisa, Law or Hwoarang instead.

I can pick dragunov right now and wreck people 1000 times easier than with kaz or bryan or steve, he plays himself. Instant while running is possible to do after one minute in lab literall monkey can play this char

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Originally posted by Vahel:

How are you even supposed to improve if you're not acknowledging the strengths of your main ahah ! Last time it was "d2 is not tracking" and now it's "d/b3+4 is a weak low compared to Bryan's hatchet", my man... Are we playing the same game ?

That's a really great quote. I'm quite sure he knows on some level the character is over-tuned, but chooses to look the other way. Awareness is key to lasting improvements for sure.

[SEATEK The_LEFTY]

I kept reading the reaponses.over and over.

How can anyone downplay drag right now? LOL

[C.C. 折オリ枝 の 夫]

Originally posted by Vahel:

So our favourite downplayer is still trying to say that Dragunov is weak ?!
How are you even supposed to improve if you're not acknowledging the strengths of your main ahah ! Last time it was "d2 is not tracking" and now it's "d/b3+4 is a weak low compared to Bryan's hatchet", my man... Are we playing the same game ?

You know, thinking about it, there's three possible reasons, all three being plausible.

1. He believes his own lies.

2. He wants to claim that the results he got are not influences by Dragunov but only the result of his own skill.

3. He's just that bad and doesn't understand how the character works properly.

Could be any of the three, or could be all of them combined.

[Vahel]

Originally posted by Be_Proud (Heritage):

That's a really great quote. I'm quite sure he knows on some level the character is over-tuned, but chooses to look the other way. Awareness is key to lasting improvements for sure.

It truly is, but Zag doesn't seem to want any of that unfortunately.

Originally posted by C.C. スパークル:

You know, thinking about it, there's three possible reasons, all three being plausible.

1. He believes his own lies.

2. He wants to claim that the results he got are not influences by Dragunov but only the result of his own skill.

3. He's just that bad and doesn't understand how the character works properly.

Could be any of the three, or could be all of them combined.

I hope it's just a stupid matter of ego honestly, one man can't possibly be this delusional, right ? :')

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Tekken 8 became more of a puzzle reaction game than T7
T7 you had a set of diverse options, but T8 those options are constrained.

MU seems to be even harder than before and way more about intense hard reads.

They did everything they could to make the fight go on.

[xawesomecorex]

Originally posted by C.C. スパークル:

I think Zag completely missed the point of what I said, but then again isn't that the norm by now?

The point was that he thinks Bryan's qcb3 is better than Dragunov's d/b3+4 because it's -13, while my argument was that it's not. If Bryan does qcb3 > qcb3, you can swl and not only avoid the 2nd, but get to his back for a juicy combo, however if Dragunov does d/b3+4 > d/b3+4, you're stuck, you can't move, the 2nd one is homing, you lost access to movement, and that creates a forced 50-50, you have to guess if the next one is mid or low because you lost access to movement.

The point was that Bryan's move is weaker because if it hits you, you can still move afterwards, meanwhile once Dragunov hits you with his, you're in a forced 50-50 as you can no longer move. You can't move because the 2nd is homing so your option against that is to duck, but ducking against Dragunov with how strong his mids are is...

Zag just be like "he can't do two in a row because you can jab him out of it".

If he also wans to talk interruptions, sure, let's do that.

If Dragunov does d/b3+4 > d/b3+4, you can jab him out, or if you're a character that has a 12f, you can do that too.

If Bryan does qcb3 > qcb3, you can also jab him as well, ofc, but also, if your character has a 15f d/f2, you can do that too and get a full combo.

So, in Dragunov situation, you get a jab as your interrupt reward, or a 12f if your character has it, meanwhile in the Bryan situation, except for Steve, you can get a full combo on Bryan.

But sure, Dragunov's move us weaker because it's -15 on block, as if frames on block are everything that matters on a move.

So yes, Zag is a joke. His argument? Just press at -7, nothing bad will happen.

You're assuming Zag knows what side-stepping is

[xawesomecorex]

All I'm reading from the Drag copium is "just block"

[RawTheory]

Fighting Drag makes me want to uninstall the game, honestly.