Ranked Is Terrible For Newcomers

[Yeish]

I have never touched a Tekken game before (if you discount dabbling for 15 minutes once in my lifetime) and I am sitting at Brawler rank with a win rate of the current antarctic weather temperature.

My opponents do Korean Backdash as if they were born with it. And meanwhile each time I somehow sneak a win in, probably because they played blindfolded when they saw my name, I keep ranking up and my winrate exceeds FP32 with how many zeros you have to append to it.

Why would the devs do such a thing? Elo rating is designed to show the win probability between two players. By having such a large amount of total required wins instead, I keep climbing the ranks when I absolutely shouldn't. So even with 94% loss rate (Elo difference of 400? points) I will keep climbing the ranks and it won't stop.

I know the game switches from Warrior on to a classic system. But this launch phase feels absolutely dreadful to play. Why not do a hybrid as Granblue Fantasy Versus? You can't climb down in the first ranks, but you will need to outplay the opponents on that rank and a subzero winrate as mine is not going to cut it. At Brawler rank I feel like an imposter. I barely grasp how the game flows yet.

I will learn the game with time, but I can't help but feel this alienates the entire newcomer faction of the playerbase and I am not sure what the devs were expecting with this implementation. Realistically new players have to wait until the good players rank up and play something else and in the meantime they stop playing Tekken at all?

I have played fighting games offline with a bunch of people where pretty much nobody knew how to play at all and neither anybody knew the obscure retro games. Let's just say a winrate like mine is not the norm for equal newcomers. Tekken 8 screwed this seriously up.

[Messsucher]

Publicado originalmente por Yeish:

Publicado originalmente por pharmacist12:

No ranked is awesome.

Are you a total newcomer to Tekken?

Publicado originalmente por MasteR:

In the end, you will just get demolished even more once the green or yellow rank is reached. Good luck.

Now that I hit Warrior my win rate pretty much doubled and winning matches against Assailants and Demolators. Talking about a rubbish ranked system. Sure my skill increased, but not to the extent my win rate doubled as I rank up.

Now that it is kmown the ranks are even offline editable, I am not surprised about the genius behind the low rank hell. The dumbest decision ever to always rank up while the win rate goes down.

It would be indeed record retarded, if they did it that way. But most probs players have "secret match making rating". The rating players can see is for casuals who want perceivable "progression".

[Messsucher]

Publicado originalmente por Yeish:

Publicado originalmente por Sown-Laughter:

^ this 100%

Because it is zero fun and near zero usefulness to get bodied at a near zero win rate when better ranking methods than whatever this low rank pile of garbage is, exists.

Whatever match making system they have it apparently does not work at all, meaning it is complete failure. ELO sorts ranks very quick and matches then players of similar rank. This is what Tekken should be doing, but for some reason players have huge skill differences, making it a pain for new players, a pain they should not have.

It is like Namco purposefully feeds newbs to old players roflmao.

[Beyond]

Publicado originalmente por Messsucher:

Publicado originalmente por Yeish:

Because it is zero fun and near zero usefulness to get bodied at a near zero win rate when better ranking methods than whatever this low rank pile of garbage is, exists.

Whatever match making system they have it apparently does not work at all, meaning it is complete failure. ELO sorts ranks very quick and matches then players of similar rank. This is what Tekken should be doing, but for some reason players have huge skill differences, making it a pain for new players, a pain they should not have.

It is like Namco purposefully feeds newbs to old players roflmao.

How do you realistically determine the skill level of a player?

For instance, I've been struggling last couple of days against Reina and Victor, since they are new, and against some characters that had their kit changed.

Some of the matches go alright, in some I get knowledge checked 24/7.

If your hypothetical system analyzes my performance and determines that I "suck" only to place me at lower elo for me to stomp the hell out of newcomers who play more familiar characters, what would you say then?

It's clear as day that you people are new around here. Green ranks are called "green ranks" for a reason. Anyone who's been here for quite some times has a clear picture in their head of what a "green law" player looks like, or "green hwoarang".

The game's rank system is very simplistic in its nature, but it does its purpose, which is to separate players according to their skill level.

People who are new to the game hit the wall at green ranks, where scrub stompers reign. It is your usual suspects, character who knowledge check you and pressure you with their strings which you need to know ways around.

A little bit further there are yellow ranks, a more skillful bunch, but not by much. Mostly more obscure characters or characters who have easy time flowcharting.

The higher you get, the more competent you need to be to play, you won't be able to maintain your rank if you don't have the skills and/or knowledge to hold on to it.

The older rank system was hella random, nobody knew how many points one would receive or lose (and most likely it was something that you lot seem to crave), but it was removed due to how hard to undersrtand and comprehend it was. Back then, if you were Genbu, you were "Genbu" level player, nowadays it's become more inflated, with those players moving up and up.

The crux of this whole post is the fact that it's been the first week of the game out and the floodgates are open, veterans and newcomers join ranked battle and some people get their heads bashed in. It is nothing of the ordinary, happens with every competetive game after season reset, where you have to play your placement matches.

If anything, I would say that this benefits the OP since he gets to see what he struggles with, but looking at these posts and the hostility towards everyone, developers included, I hardly doubt he is capable of introscpection.

[Tyrone Biggums]

TLDR

dont play ranked learn the game a bit first

[Carbon]

imagine playing at the arcade and learning. Be happy you can pay once and practice forever.

[天佑中共🐥the light]

I literally stayed as a 1st dan for a year in Tekken 7 coz data corrupt. abandoned ranked fought various ppl and ranks in quick match. I took off real fast in ranked when I came back. its better to get the feeling of mechanics and match up first before joining the massacre aka ranked matches

[Yeish]

Publicado originalmente por Beyond:

How do you realistically determine the skill level of a player?

It is called Elo and has a mathematical formula attached to it. You win, you get more points, you lose, you have less points. The difference between the amount of points is the probability the stronger player wins.

Publicado originalmente por Beyond:

The game's rank system is very simplistic in its nature, but it does its purpose, which is to separate players according to their skill level.

It doesn't. It counts the absolute amount of wins instead of probability to win. This is a statistic, not a skill level. I had almost zero chance of winning. Yellow ranks are easier than the lower Green, because the Yellow ones work like Elo. These players did lose roughly as much they won. Unlike Greens, which sometimes have Win Streaks of 10+.

Publicado originalmente por Beyond:

The older rank system was hella random, nobody knew how many points one would receive or lose (and most likely it was something that you lot seem to crave),

There is a mathematical formula, you can look it up under Elo (or Rating Systems, as there are more ways to calculate this). They might have modified it a bit, but it works the same.

Publicado originalmente por Beyond:

nowadays it's become more inflated, with those players moving up and up.

Which is a real problem and rank resets need to happen from time to time, or use a ladder system where players get kicked out of certain ranks.

[Beyond]

You are really dense, I've tried to explain this to you once and you ignored it.

It is OK to be new to something and not understand how it works and why it is the way it is. It is another thing entirely to bring your stupid opinions out in the public and demand everything around you to change instead of accepting a new perspective.

The ranked system doesn't count anything. I'll explain to you in simple terms:
- You get points based on the difference between your opponents rank and your rank.
- The more difference is (if you are ahead), the less you get.
- The best way to move up in ranks is to fight opponents that are +-2 rank levels around you.
- There is no statistic involved, the number of wins in-game is simply a winstreak. Furthermore, winrate doesn't and shouldn't affect anything.
- The game searches for active players online based on your search parameters (the range of rank from yours)

All games that have elo-based matchmaking suck because after some time your MMR becomes so ♥♥♥♥ you no longer get any points and are stuck in elo-hell (prime example: League of Legends).

Take your MMR ideas somewhere else.

[Meltrust]

Please look here for help:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1778820/discussions/0/4147320315764544186/?tscn=1706522990

[Yeish]

Publicado originalmente por Beyond:

Furthermore, winrate doesn't and shouldn't affect anything.

All games that have elo-based matchmaking suck

Player A plays 100 games and wins all of them. Player B plays 10000 games and wins 100 one of them. Is it a fair match between player A and B?

Tekken 8 has Elo matchmaking from Warrior and up. Developers just feed the newcomers to the lions in the lower ranks. Probably because they thought never losing a rank is somehow better than never winning a game.

[Beyond]

And you know what happened in previous Tekken games?

There were people with thousands of games in green and yellow ranks, scrubbing around because they couldn't care less about learning the game, they would just flowchart themselves into oblivion.

If you have the level of competency enough to beat them, you move on, they stay behind.

Number of games should not metter, rank is the factor that determines everything, as it naturally sorts things out: better players move up, worse players stay down.

Also, your argument about number of games is flawed because if opponent A wins 100 games withing 2-3 rank reach in a row, he would be way up in the ranks, whereas opponent B would still be hardstuck greenrank because he would always get demoted.
These player would never meet each other unless they both specifically set search parameters to match with anyone or if they would play a player match.

This goes to show that you have no understanding of the subject you are talking about.

[Yeish]

Publicado originalmente por Beyond:

Also, your argument about number of games is flawed because if opponent A wins 100 games withing 2-3 rank reach in a row, he would be way up in the ranks, whereas opponent B would still be hardstuck greenrank because he would always get demoted.
These player would never meet each other unless they both specifically set search parameters to match with anyone or if they would play a player match.

No, in the current system both players would be in Green, but actually with like 25-35 wins.

[Beyond]

Not to mention the fact that there are people who have been playing Tekken for more that 20 years by now. There is no way you can make a system that would take that into the account and why should it? In Tekken rank isn't reflective of anything, to be quite frank. There are people who get their rank inflated simply by flowcharting with a particular character, yet when you play them, they lack basic understanding of the game and fundamentals.

Rank is just a shiny badge next to your healthbar. Nothing more, nothing less.

You could not set a foot into ranked matches, play offline and player matches and grow as a player.

You are introducing these ideas into the game about two people fighting. The better player should win, if you lose, it is on you (you didn't space properly, your combos weren't optimized or you dropped them, you whiffed a lot, you didn't know the match up or enemy character etc.)

Instead of typing about elo system hit that training mode and improve or just play the game and learn it as it goes on.

[Beyond]

Publicado originalmente por Yeish:

No, in the current system both players would be in Green, but actually with like 25-35 wins.

You have to be trolling. Then again, private profile checks out.

[FatalFRAME]

Well in any game, rank is always terrible for newcomers. Imagine if i never played a shooting game in my life, i jump into RANK, the most sweatiest game modes of all where everyone wants to win by any means, should i expect to get kills? Should i not expect to get 2 kills and 15 deaths? Do i blame the game because i jumped into such a game mode when i don't even know how to aim? Don't even know how to throw a grenade? Don't even know how to move? Don't even know who my teammates or enemies are, or how they are supposed to look? Surely someone needs to be blamed for MY INCOMPETENCE RIGHT?