Ranked Is Terrible For Newcomers

[Yeish]

I have never touched a Tekken game before (if you discount dabbling for 15 minutes once in my lifetime) and I am sitting at Brawler rank with a win rate of the current antarctic weather temperature.

My opponents do Korean Backdash as if they were born with it. And meanwhile each time I somehow sneak a win in, probably because they played blindfolded when they saw my name, I keep ranking up and my winrate exceeds FP32 with how many zeros you have to append to it.

Why would the devs do such a thing? Elo rating is designed to show the win probability between two players. By having such a large amount of total required wins instead, I keep climbing the ranks when I absolutely shouldn't. So even with 94% loss rate (Elo difference of 400? points) I will keep climbing the ranks and it won't stop.

I know the game switches from Warrior on to a classic system. But this launch phase feels absolutely dreadful to play. Why not do a hybrid as Granblue Fantasy Versus? You can't climb down in the first ranks, but you will need to outplay the opponents on that rank and a subzero winrate as mine is not going to cut it. At Brawler rank I feel like an imposter. I barely grasp how the game flows yet.

I will learn the game with time, but I can't help but feel this alienates the entire newcomer faction of the playerbase and I am not sure what the devs were expecting with this implementation. Realistically new players have to wait until the good players rank up and play something else and in the meantime they stop playing Tekken at all?

I have played fighting games offline with a bunch of people where pretty much nobody knew how to play at all and neither anybody knew the obscure retro games. Let's just say a winrate like mine is not the norm for equal newcomers. Tekken 8 screwed this seriously up.

[Ace]

Maxaemon lähetti viestin:

Valinov lähetti viestin:

This game gives you more tools than ever to learn how to play. If you don't use them then that's on you.

Also, looking through some of these comments, people complain about the WILDEST ♥♥♥♥ that they either don't understand or is just a flat out lie lmao

Giving us all these fancy tools to learn, fair play, that is cool. But then you have a roster of 32 fighters, each with a gazillion moves and nuances. Yes I have some cool tools to use to learn, but it doesn't change the fact that it will still take probably hundreds of hours to go through it all and git gud.

Bottom line, Tekken is NOT for casual players! You are meant to commit to it like you would to a serious hobby or even a career. Ngl I was bamboozled by promotional material thinking I could have some fun as a casual but I was wrong.

For now my plan is to forget about ranked and just stick to training punishment and my character, when I feel like it, no commitment. Maybe look for some other ways how a casual can have fun with the game, suggestions?

Except to play most characters fairly optimally, you use about...10-20 moves, tops.

Tekken scares a lot of people because on paper you look at a character and it has 200 moves and 9 stances with 40 branches each and you think "WOW I have to learn ALL of this" but...no?

There's TONS of moves you'll almost never use. Hell, With Lee chaolan, I'm Seiryu just by baiting whiffs and doing a combo that has worked since Tekken 6 and i am DOGASS at fighting games. I get worked up way too easily and have a bad tendency to panic and drop combos, so I keep it simple and focus on punishes.

Like here's literally all the moves I use:

LP>RP>RP>LK for pressure
Acid storm (forward+LK mash > RK launcher if it hits or delayed for trap)
Back+RP>RK>LK
Upback+LK for style points
Forward,Forward+LK for mid poke
Back+LK+RK for armor.
Running Lk>RK

That's it.

That's my entire movelist that I use consistently. EVERYTHING ELSE is just for and giggles.

It's a common misconception in fighting games that your entire movelist has to be internalized. In reality, you just learn what works well and then slowly absorb the situational stuff or how to extend what you know. It takes years of experience to play fighting games well, sure. But if you're new, you shouldn't expect to win. You wouldn't expect to beat someone who has played chess for 10 years, even casually, if you were brand new. That's not the fault of the game, or the player, or the weather, or your bum knee. It's how "skill" works. Practice never makes perfect, it just makes better.

What it sounds like is that you don't want to play "casually"....you want winning and the game to be easier: But no fighting game will ever be that because of the nature of FIGHTING GAMES.

You can stick to single player if playing the actual game is too much to handle, but you'll just learn bad habits and never actually be applying your punishments in situations where they would actually be tested. AI will never understand the intricacies of a frame trap. It won't understand that being thrown six times in a row means that there's probably a seventh. It just goes "I'm being thrown, throwbreak Y/N" and flips a coin to decide if it wants to throw break or let it happen. That's not how actual people work....

Even ghosts can be tricked and abused this way. Have fun fighting the ghosts, by all means! Just treat it like you're not playing tekken at all, because comparitively to the actual multiplayer, you're not.

Same with story mode. Story mode has so many jankass tweaks like super armor on standing still, spammable heat impacts, changed movesets that can't be accessed in multiplayer, ect.

[Ghost]

A guy just said that Tekken isn't for Casuals because he is having a hard time in ranked.

Ranked is the opposite of Casual. If you pick Ranked you are asking for anything but a casual experience.
People have been so spoon-fed that they now win in ranked by playing casually.

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

Ghost lähetti viestin:

A guy just said that Tekken isn't for Casuals because he is having a hard time in ranked.

Ranked is the opposite of Casual. If you pick Ranked you are asking for anything but a casual experience.
People have been so spoon-fed that they now win in ranked by playing casually.

Just for the sake of this point, I'm going to put this below as the definition of what it means to be a casual gamer/ playing casually.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1xjpjj/serious_what_does_being_a_casual_gamer_really_mean/

So, in this context, I don't think that's true, bro. I play this game very "casually", but I enjoy playing ranked, but not to the point where I'd make it so as if it's a living (professional gamers) for me. Ranked can be played casually, but you've got to get better faster though if you want to keep up is all, in my opinion.

[Peddie]

I'd argue ranked is more casual than unranked if you don't care too much about number go up and care more about having an opponent in your skill range (once the first week rush is over and everyone got to the ranks they deserve to be in), as it is the one and only mode where the game will try to get you someone you have a 50/50 chance of beating. In other modes you can just casually get matched against someone that does this for a living. Sounds pretty stressful to me.

If ranked in a fighting game is stressful to you it's self induced.

[.]

this genre should just die out already

[Be_Proud (Heritage)]

. lähetti viestin:

this genre should just die out already

Sorry, bro. That just won't happen. These games are fun!!

[Ghost]

I am sorry but i am not going to click a reddit link.

But casual used to mean non competitive. Now if non-competitive gamers want fight each other in low ranked matches they are going to have to wait until the dust settles. Hardly a fault of the game.

But i also agree with Peddie that, paradoxically, people will have a easier time with ranked, than unranked, whenn all things settle, because they will face similar skilled opponents.

[.]

It will die out with all the legacy players and pros earning a bag, this genre have no future just like RTS, it doesnt gain new players (and never will) only lose them all in 3 months
in 50 years nobody will even know fighting games existed

[T1g3r]

I mean the game lets one play against the CPU to assess rank level (skipping the lowest of the low ranks if the player doesnt behave too scrubby), but this assessment should not only be based on one CPU fight but also by several steps of tutorial mode where skills are assessed or there should be several fights against the CPU, and players, who move on crack or show high combo dmg or good knowledge of heat system, can directly be warped to warrior rank or even ruler ranks (if it turns out that they are not good enough, they will go down the ranks anyway after some time)

or instead of losing ranks, players should always get automatically matched with players of the rank closest to them (of the pool of players with a given connection quality)

[Chupi]

after 30 years in the market and you have no idea about tekken... its just like that guys crying about POE its hard... having internet and all the information about each game its your fault buy a hardcore game and expect its super casual friendly.

[Nedbrytar-Yngve]

Yo OP, i'm pretty sure that the diehard fans are literally incapable of understanding what you wrote, its actually scary.

"duh the game is hard"
Yeah no ♥♥♥♥ but the point is that you climb when you shouldnt be climbing so you're just getting wrecked by people who are better than you.

[Nedbrytar-Yngve]

chupi lähetti viestin:

after 30 years in the market and you have no idea about tekken... its just like that guys crying about POE its hard... having internet and all the information about each game its your fault buy a hardcore game and expect its super casual friendly.

learn to read you absolute goober, OP's issue is that he is ranking up when he shouldnt be, he should be 1st dan but he's climbing upwards when in fact he's not actually good enough to play against people in the ranks above, he's not complaining about the game being hard.

[Grandson]

I’m pretty much completely new to tekken. I peaked very early in T7 (teal ranks). Since getting T8, I’ve been playing ranked and practice mode to learn my character (Jun). Quick question, have you tried learning the character you are playing? With Jun Or any character, there is no way I can win if I didn’t learn or try to practice the main moves, strings, keep-out tools, punishes, etc. I’m still not done yet. Even then I just hit cavalry and have a 40% WR.

Coming from a new player, I am so surprised that there are so many people who believe they can start doing well after coming from arcade quest or story mode. I can’t speak on the pros or good players in ranked as I don’t know if I’m facing them (im sorry if you are). I don’t think you are an imposter in brawler, you are probably missing key fundamental things that is hindering your performance, that can picked up if you just put in the time in practice and watching replays. Like yesterday, I learnt a couple strings and a 10f punish that when put into practice really helped me out. Something small like that can really change your gameplay.

However, I’m getting my ass kicked and so will every newcomer until we fix something fundamental about our gameplay. That’s only going to happen if we put the work in.

[Nedbrytar-Yngve]

grandson lähetti viestin:

Coming from a new player, I am so surprised that there are so many people who believe they can start doing well after coming from arcade quest or story mode.

thats not the point of the thread bro, it's like everyone is unable to read, wtf is going on man.

[Grandson]

Nedbrytar-Yngve lähetti viestin:

grandson lähetti viestin:

Coming from a new player, I am so surprised that there are so many people who believe they can start doing well after coming from arcade quest or story mode.

thats not the point of the thread bro, it's like everyone is unable to read, wtf is going on man.

Because it doesn’t make any sense. Brawler rank is 6 ranks away from 1st Dan If their WR is 10% how many matches would they have to of played to reach that rank? In that time you couldn’t figure out why you are losing? there isn’t much disparity in these ranks except for the occasional good player since the game is new.