Ranked Is Terrible For Newcomers

[Yeish]

I have never touched a Tekken game before (if you discount dabbling for 15 minutes once in my lifetime) and I am sitting at Brawler rank with a win rate of the current antarctic weather temperature.

My opponents do Korean Backdash as if they were born with it. And meanwhile each time I somehow sneak a win in, probably because they played blindfolded when they saw my name, I keep ranking up and my winrate exceeds FP32 with how many zeros you have to append to it.

Why would the devs do such a thing? Elo rating is designed to show the win probability between two players. By having such a large amount of total required wins instead, I keep climbing the ranks when I absolutely shouldn't. So even with 94% loss rate (Elo difference of 400? points) I will keep climbing the ranks and it won't stop.

I know the game switches from Warrior on to a classic system. But this launch phase feels absolutely dreadful to play. Why not do a hybrid as Granblue Fantasy Versus? You can't climb down in the first ranks, but you will need to outplay the opponents on that rank and a subzero winrate as mine is not going to cut it. At Brawler rank I feel like an imposter. I barely grasp how the game flows yet.

I will learn the game with time, but I can't help but feel this alienates the entire newcomer faction of the playerbase and I am not sure what the devs were expecting with this implementation. Realistically new players have to wait until the good players rank up and play something else and in the meantime they stop playing Tekken at all?

I have played fighting games offline with a bunch of people where pretty much nobody knew how to play at all and neither anybody knew the obscure retro games. Let's just say a winrate like mine is not the norm for equal newcomers. Tekken 8 screwed this seriously up.

[minnchops]

Publicado originalmente por Chub-Zero:

Publicado originalmente por minnchops:

If you think the people smoking you in the low ranks are masters... I don’t know what to say. I guarantee it’s because they’re cheesing you out and aren’t actually playing well. This is the skill floor for Tekken 8, it’s not an issue of ELO.

Now a discussion of whether this skill floor means the game is bad (I think it is, some game plans are WAY too easy to execute, game is overall too aggressive) but that’s not an issue with the ranks.

Just because you're bad at the game doesn't make it a bad game. It's a game about beating the crap out of other people, aggression is the name of the game here. What would you prefer, every match begin and end with people sitting on the floor talking out their differences?

The online learning curve of Tekken 8 is one of the steepest I've experienced in recent memory though, I will say that. And I think it's because one main reason. That being that there's literally nothing you can do once you've started getting wombo comboed. You're basically just enjoying the show until they screw up one of their inputs or their 10 string half-court showboating session ends, which the moment you fail to block a hit it starts all over. The only thing you can hope is that you're good enough to not get put in that situation to begin with. Which if you're new, 99% of all of your fights online are gonna be people who 10 point juggle you OR people who just spam one ability that locks you into a corner until you die. Street Fighter is lenient with you when you're on the ground, which makes it easier for new players to get their feet wet, and Guilty Gear Strive literally gives you a button you can hit that'll break somebodies wombo combo, giving you a moment to breath and figure something out. Tekken doesn't do that. The game forces you to sink or swim, no handouts.

Yes thank you for describing 2 games I’ve put a lot of hours into. Literally not what this thread is about.

[Power_Bert]

Do people really think the rank shown ingame is the same as the matchmaking rank?

[le merveilleux]

the game gets easy the more u play, my reina can fold most of other players, unless the game pairs me with a 120.000 player and he proceds to destroy my whole existence.

[.]

In Tekken 7 newbies usually jumped between Initiate - Brawler forever and even with +3 on ranked they rarely meet people that can literally stomp them into the ground because gap was that big. Now in T8 sooner or later u and everybody else reach cavalry because loses doesn't count at all just wins, so newbies will jump being promoted to Warrior and demoted back to cavalry over and over, theres no space or range for scrubs anymore.

[Messsucher]

Publicado originalmente por .:

In Tekken 7 newbies usually jumped between Initiate - Brawler forever and even with +3 on ranked they rarely meet people that can literally stomp them into the ground because gap was that big. Now in T8 sooner or later u and everybody else reach cavalry because loses doesn't count at all just wins, so newbies will jump being promoted to Warrior and demoted back to cavalry over and over, theres no space or range for scrubs anymore.

That is a bad mistake by Capcom.

[Meddle92]

Publicado originalmente por mercureXI:

Tekken requires newcomers to play for about a decade to learn all variations and moves from the 100+ moves for EVERY character.

Meaning you just can't defend efficiently until 2034.

Fun ? No ?

That's Tekken . . . Dumbest game design you can see on the market, but since the game is insanely mash happy, it sells well.

I don't know any matchups and I just got assailant with a character I don't even understand. I don't know any punishes beyond basic punishes. If you just have basic game sense and have played these types of games before you can win there are also easy mode characters that have combos that could be done by blindfolded toddlers.

[Meddle92]

Publicado originalmente por Messsucher:

Publicado originalmente por .:

In Tekken 7 newbies usually jumped between Initiate - Brawler forever and even with +3 on ranked they rarely meet people that can literally stomp them into the ground because gap was that big. Now in T8 sooner or later u and everybody else reach cavalry because loses doesn't count at all just wins, so newbies will jump being promoted to Warrior and demoted back to cavalry over and over, theres no space or range for scrubs anymore.

That is a bad mistake by Capcom.

Capcom's got nothing to do with it.

[Yeish]

Publicado originalmente por Power_Bert:

Do people really think the rank shown ingame is the same as the matchmaking rank?

Prove that it is otherwise for lower ranks. Even if it is like that, there is no indication it factors in other stuff and even the wrong perception is kind of a fault of the game. Valorant at least tries to show you that your individual performance does matter and not every win or loss is equal point wise.

By this point in Tekken I had my first 7 win streak with Leroy to Assailant, but I will ditch that character. Now that I understand the game in a little tiny step better even his best options feel subpar. And a look at the ranked distribution, ignoring the first top player might show he is one of the bottom tier characters of the game. Xiaoyou and Leo will be the next ones for me to go.

[olligo]

Publicado originalmente por Yeish:

Publicado originalmente por Power_Bert:

Do people really think the rank shown ingame is the same as the matchmaking rank?

Prove that it is otherwise for lower ranks. Even if it is like that, there is no indication it factors in other stuff and even the wrong perception is kind of a fault of the game. Valorant at least tries to show you that your individual performance does matter and not every win or loss is equal point wise.

By this point in Tekken I had my first 7 win streak with Leroy to Assailant, but I will ditch that character. Now that I understand the game in a little tiny step better even his best options feel subpar. And a look at the ranked distribution, ignoring the first top player might show he is one of the bottom tier characters of the game. Xiaoyou and Leo will be the next ones for me to go.

Oh :o you hit Assailant already, I still havent reached it once. I was only close to getting it, like 100 points away.

[ZeroJOZHAN]

I haven’t played any fighting game since my high school. While I suck at Tekken 8, I find it entertaining. Maybe I played way too much souls game so I am used to fail 😂

[olligo]

Publicado originalmente por ZeroJOZHAN:

I haven’t played any fighting game since my high school. While I suck at Tekken 8, I find it entertaining. Maybe I played way too much souls game so I am used to fail 😂

YOU DIED

[LASCKHA]

like 10 days late, but i'm having the same problem.
This is the first fighting game i play, and i'm not a very fast learner apparently. I would like to improve but it feels impossible against players that are much better than me. (yes, even if they are scrubs to you, they can still overwhealm new players).

It was fine at the beginning, but then i just kept ranking up regardless of my winrate and now i'm sitting here with 5% winrate and almost every player stomps me without me learning anything. I don't even care that much about the winrate, but it feels impossible to learn when you're being shaken down for all your worth.

Like you say, it's as if Chess.com made it impossible to rank down under 600. How the ♥♥♥♥ is a 300 player supposed to enjoy the game?
It doesn't matter that below 600 is "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥", different levels of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ exist in there and all of them want to have fun

[Rusty]

Play it with your friends. Get three, four- hell even two people- together, and play (and improve) alongside your friends. When you go back to ranks in a week/month/year from then (if you even want to; I'm having more fun with my friends) you'll wonder if the other people are even playing as you wipe the floor with them.

Publicado originalmente por ZeroJOZHAN:

I haven’t played any fighting game since my high school. While I suck at Tekken 8, I find it entertaining. Maybe I played way too much souls game so I am used to fail 😂

Dark Souls PvP, then Chivalry duels, then Guilty Gear, now Tekken. It's so bizarre, I used to hate fighting games but those first two games slowly eased me into it. Tekken has that incredibly hard movement that I love about Chivalry and Dark Souls PVP.

[Ein]

Playing with friends who play fighting games is a stupid idea. Skill gap is always too high.

[olligo]

Publicado originalmente por LASCKHA:

like 10 days late, but i'm having the same problem.
This is the first fighting game i play, and i'm not a very fast learner apparently. I would like to improve but it feels impossible against players that are much better than me. (yes, even if they are scrubs to you, they can still overwhealm new players).

It was fine at the beginning, but then i just kept ranking up regardless of my winrate and now i'm sitting here with 5% winrate and almost every player stomps me without me learning anything. I don't even care that much about the winrate, but it feels impossible to learn when you're being shaken down for all your worth.

Like you say, it's as if Chess.com made it impossible to rank down under 600. How the ♥♥♥♥ is a 300 player supposed to enjoy the game?
It doesn't matter that below 600 is "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥", different levels of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ exist in there and all of them want to have fun

we should play together, I am still stuck just like you and I played many ranked matches already.