Ranked Is Terrible For Newcomers

[Yeish]

I have never touched a Tekken game before (if you discount dabbling for 15 minutes once in my lifetime) and I am sitting at Brawler rank with a win rate of the current antarctic weather temperature.

My opponents do Korean Backdash as if they were born with it. And meanwhile each time I somehow sneak a win in, probably because they played blindfolded when they saw my name, I keep ranking up and my winrate exceeds FP32 with how many zeros you have to append to it.

Why would the devs do such a thing? Elo rating is designed to show the win probability between two players. By having such a large amount of total required wins instead, I keep climbing the ranks when I absolutely shouldn't. So even with 94% loss rate (Elo difference of 400? points) I will keep climbing the ranks and it won't stop.

I know the game switches from Warrior on to a classic system. But this launch phase feels absolutely dreadful to play. Why not do a hybrid as Granblue Fantasy Versus? You can't climb down in the first ranks, but you will need to outplay the opponents on that rank and a subzero winrate as mine is not going to cut it. At Brawler rank I feel like an imposter. I barely grasp how the game flows yet.

I will learn the game with time, but I can't help but feel this alienates the entire newcomer faction of the playerbase and I am not sure what the devs were expecting with this implementation. Realistically new players have to wait until the good players rank up and play something else and in the meantime they stop playing Tekken at all?

I have played fighting games offline with a bunch of people where pretty much nobody knew how to play at all and neither anybody knew the obscure retro games. Let's just say a winrate like mine is not the norm for equal newcomers. Tekken 8 screwed this seriously up.

[Yeish]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Beyond:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yeish:

No, in the current system both players would be in Green, but actually with like 25-35 wins.

You have to be trolling. Then again, private profile checks out.

I wish I was trolling which is why I made this post and hope for a change. Getting matched with <10% win rate against a player with a >10, even >20, win streak would be hilarious, if it wasn't so sad. We are all getting trolled by the devs.

A question: If the game only counts the wins and discards the losses (as you never lose points or derank until Warrior), how does it know the other player has more losses and shouldn't be in the same rank?

And if it does some mathematic shenanigans to account for win streaks, why do I match with players on a win streak almost equaling my total wins? What is your explanation why it would happen?

And what rank are you in Tekken 8 and what is your win rate? Because of you breezed easily into Red ranks, I am not surprised you can't understand what newbies deal with.

[Yeish]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von FatalFRAME:

Well in any game, rank is always terrible for newcomers.

Jump into a properly rated online chess server, you will end up winning roughly half your games, unless you throw on purpose obviously and play one or two dozens of matches to get settled into your rank. Your skill level doesn't matter on an absolute scale for my gripes with the ranked system in Tekken.

I really would like to ask everyone kindly not to throw unsolicited advice at me. This isn't a "game hard, make simple", "I am brilliant, should be Tekken God" and at the same time I am pretty sure I am not in the bottom 0.1% of newcomers as Warrior rank is so much more bearable than the ranks below.

[Beyond]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yeish:

A question: If the game only counts the wins and discards the losses (as you never lose points or derank until Warrior), how does it know the other player has more losses and shouldn't be in the same rank?

And if it does some mathematic shenanigans to account for win streaks, why do I match with players on a win streak almost equaling my total wins? What is your explanation why it would happen?

And what rank are you in Tekken 8 and what is your win rate? Because of you breezed easily into Red ranks, I am not surprised you can't understand what newbies deal with.

The game doesn't count "Wins", it counts points. You get different amount of points depending on the opponent's rank. You could have 1000 ranked wins against players who are 10 dans below you and maybe move up 1 rank, then lose 3-4 games against an opponent of the same rank and lose it all.

I understand everything, just like any other Tekken player should because nobody is born with this knowledge and experience of playing the game, everyone was a beginner at some point.

https://imgur.com/a/q52ZMoh

[Yeish]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Beyond:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yeish:

A question: If the game only counts the wins and discards the losses (as you never lose points or derank until Warrior), how does it know the other player has more losses and shouldn't be in the same rank?

And if it does some mathematic shenanigans to account for win streaks, why do I match with players on a win streak almost equaling my total wins? What is your explanation why it would happen?

And what rank are you in Tekken 8 and what is your win rate? Because of you breezed easily into Red ranks, I am not surprised you can't understand what newbies deal with.

The game doesn't count "Wins", it counts points. You get different amount of points depending on the opponent's rank. You could have 1000 ranked wins against players who are 10 dans below you and maybe move up 1 rank, then lose 3-4 games against an opponent of the same rank and lose it all.

You don't lose any points until Warrior. This entire topic is about the pre Warrior ranked system which is completely screwed up. And while you obviously just jumped ahead through the system, I got stuck in it very badly. Your rank works on ELO, like it should be. And the system works exactly as intended with the 50% win ratio for you. That is exactly what ELO ranking is supposed to do.

But it doesn't for me and newcomers, because there is no ELO and the win rate goes to 0%. Most will just drop the game.

[Arschhaarraucher]

game is dead already, 4 days after launch playerbase dropped from 45k to 20k already

[Nagita]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yeish:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von FatalFRAME:

Well in any game, rank is always terrible for newcomers.

Jump into a properly rated online chess server, you will end up winning roughly half your games, unless you throw on purpose obviously and play one or two dozens of matches to get settled into your rank. Your skill level doesn't matter on an absolute scale for my gripes with the ranked system in Tekken.

I really would like to ask everyone kindly not to throw unsolicited advice at me. This isn't a "game hard, make simple", "I am brilliant, should be Tekken God" and at the same time I am pretty sure I am not in the bottom 0.1% of newcomers as Warrior rank is so much more bearable than the ranks below.

I really think that your problem comes from the fact that all the tryhards are still getting through the ranks, and they stumble upon you like I stumble onto them. Give it a week so they all go through

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Brudi Völler:

game is dead already, 4 days after launch playerbase dropped from 45k to 20k already

https://steamcharts.com/app/1778820

https://steamdb.info/app/1778820/charts/

Americans aren't playing online, while others on the other side are sleeping.

[chosenxeno]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Brudi Völler:

game is dead already, 4 days after launch playerbase dropped from 45k to 20k already

The only new wave Fighter in danger of dying is MK. T8 and SF6 imo are both better than their last installments. SF6 has some cleaning up to do still as far as its system but its good.

[burn]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Brudi Völler:

game is dead already, 4 days after launch playerbase dropped from 45k to 20k already

you're being so insecure man. Most Tekken players are on console. Judging a fighting game by Steam numbers? That's just silly.. also has crossplay

[TiberiusGaben]

people seem to misunderstand ranked in this game i play ranked to play with similar skilled players and as you get better then them you rank up and get humbled until you adapt again . if your playing ranked just for the rank it really doesnt matter but you should be playing ranked if your actively trying to improve the better you get the better your oppositions becomes if your getting losing 3-0 every match you dont need to be in that rank . what im trying to say is unlike alot of competitive games you wont be climbing the ranks unless your truly ready

[Castyles]

Ranked is a mess.

Sometimes I get even matches, sometimes I mop the floor with my opponent and sometimes I'm the one getting mopped. No balance at all. Totally wild.

All due to:
1)You're just unable to stick with someone of similar skill because pairing you with someone above or below is a feature for God knows why.
2)Ranks per character. For the offline it adds replayability and is a welcome feature but for the online it's just a way to make the life of all smurfs easier.
3)Special style. 'Nuff said. Should be available anywhere but Ranked.

[ElementalPhoenix]

NGL I like Tekkens ranking system more than other games hands down my favorite

[takerhey]

im new to tekken mechanic too, i advice you to learn at least one combo for one character. it definitely increase your chance in winning during trade. Add me as friend, let's train together!

[Turtle.]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Castyles:

Ranked is a mess.

Sometimes I get even matches, sometimes I mop the floor with my opponent and sometimes I'm the one getting mopped. No balance at all. Totally wild.

All due to:
1)You're just unable to stick with someone of similar skill because pairing you with someone above or below is a feature for God knows why.
2)Ranks per character. For the offline it adds replayability and is a welcome feature but for the online it's just a way to make the life of all smurfs easier.
3)Special style. 'Nuff said. Should be available anywhere but Ranked.

1) if Devs included an option to just play against people spot-on with your rank, you'd get extremely variable matchmaking times from one rank to the other. +-2 is still a decent benchmark of your skill anyway, as it's not such a huge difference. Some people end up in higher ranks by luck of the draw honestly.

I for example, most the time at least, don't think about counterplay too much when against hwoarang, so while I win 70% of my matchups I still often lose horribly against hwo. So I can just push up ranks until I encounter him for 1 match, then if I'm lucky I'll play against some other character that I'll know more. Unfortunately that's how it works, and matchup knowledge will make the mm feel unbalanced even if +-2 rank is very close to marching same rank. Most the time you wouldn't notice a difference.

2) whole idea behind the system is to put new characters a bit behind the main, in order to give time for accustoming to them. It ain't brilliant but in a week or two the "smurfs" will be mostly gone and only indeed good players learning new characters will remain. The system could always be tweaked, but I think it serves its purpose as it is.

3) specialty combos are nowhere near optimal. Practice mode even gives you some rather easy sample combos that will surely beat the specialty most the time. In this game it's even bigger difference, cuz of temporary health element - your longer juggle will not only deal more damage, but also you'll recover more temporary health.

At some point if you keep encountering specialty style people in higher ranks, it means that they're capable of doing waaay better, so treat it as an advantage more than anything. The potential damage loss per juggle just adds up and if you lose to someone using it, it's your fault for dropping the combos or not getting your turn often enough. Either way, if it keeps the ranked pool more alive there's almost no disadvantage to have with it being there. Unless you have anything else to point out in that matter.

[Yeish]

I am curious where you meet the specialty mode players, because I have seen maybe 2 out of hundreds of matches. That mode is okay for a Heat combo and Story, but otherwise it might be better to remove it from the game, as it breaks the fundamentals. It isn't simplifying the current system, it replaces it with some weird Frankenstein monster.

The Heat and Rage shortcuts need to be replaced with one fast combo and one frame trap combo to make it more than a waste of developer time.