Looks like they didn't fix the "i am lying on the ground, and you are still able to hit me with a high kick" issue

[ArcaneMaverick]

I think Tekken is the best of all the fighters out there except Smash Bros, but I cannot get over such a blatant visual problem. No, if I am laying on the ground, you should not be able to hit me with a high kick to continue your combo. It doesn't even connect physically! Literally nothing touches me and yet you can still combo. To me, this is a huge disgrace to any fighting game that has such easily fixable problem. You can't take any competition seriously with stupid things like that and too many fighting games have them.

[Pretzels]

? are you talking about kazuya f,f+4 hitting grounded? its always did that

[ArcaneMaverick]

No, not a specific move because I've seen it happen too many times with too many different combinations of characters in T7 and now even in the T8 character trailers so it's not a bug but an intentionally stupid feature.

Just to say more on the subject. It doesn't matter if this has always been present in any version because it's bad and stupid and should have never been a thing. In a fighting game where literally the most fundamental thing you need to get right is visual congruity (hits need to look like they hit without question and misses need to clearly miss, otherwise it's literally impossible to accurately play the game) it's an absolute fumble and disgrace when they fail at this extremely basic and fundamental feature.

Just because players get used to it like a domestically abused spouse doesn't make it right or in any way okay either.

Change Blindness is the term. The poor fans have dealt with it for so long, they think it's okay or worse, can't even see it at all.

Each fighting game series seems to have their version of this. SF5, I remember Chun Li's standing med punch would not touch a crouching Laura (whiffing above her head, no visible contact) and yet still connect and do damage. Conversely, one of Chun Li's crouching kicks (probably med) would go right through a standing Laura leg and not do any damage despite clearly overlapping fairly fair up both character's legs. It's bad and super embarrassing for "professionals" and any competitions the companies might want because attacks plainly and obviously hit when they shouldn't and don't when they should.

It boggles my mind how this is considered okay by players playing it and devs making it.

[Zagryzaec]

I agree with this completely and wanted it to be gone after Tekken 7.

The disconnection between what's happens in the game and what happens on the screen is detrimental for game feel and popularity.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Originally posted by Zagryzaec:

I agree with this completely and wanted it to be gone after Tekken 7.

The disconnection between what's happens in the game and what happens on the screen is detrimental for game feel and popularity.

Thank you. The solidarity is greatly appreciated! The Street Fighter community made me feel gaslighted because they truly didn't see or think it was an actual issue even with video proof of my own and from easily accessible tournament clips.

[天佑中共🐥the strongest]

basically Kazuya's cd3

[davedarkotv]

Originally posted by ArcaneMaverick:

No, not a specific move because I've seen it happen too many times with too many different combinations of characters in T7 and now even in the T8 character trailers so it's not a bug but an intentionally stupid feature.

Just to say more on the subject. It doesn't matter if this has always been present in any version because it's bad and stupid and should have never been a thing. In a fighting game where literally the most fundamental thing you need to get right is visual congruity (hits need to look like they hit without question and misses need to clearly miss, otherwise it's literally impossible to accurately play the game) it's an absolute fumble and disgrace when they fail at this extremely basic and fundamental feature.

Just because players get used to it like a domestically abused spouse doesn't make it right or in any way okay either.

Change Blindness is the term. The poor fans have dealt with it for so long, they think it's okay or worse, can't even see it at all.

Each fighting game series seems to have their version of this. SF5, I remember Chun Li's standing med punch would not touch a crouching Laura (whiffing above her head, no visible contact) and yet still connect and do damage. Conversely, one of Chun Li's crouching kicks (probably med) would go right through a standing Laura leg and not do any damage despite clearly overlapping fairly fair up both character's legs. It's bad and super embarrassing for "professionals" and any competitions the companies might want because attacks plainly and obviously hit when they shouldn't and don't when they should.

It boggles my mind how this is considered okay by players playing it and devs making it.

Because fighting games work on general rules, not on animation interactions. Each move has set properties, if a move is a mid with low hitbox, it's probably going to scoop up characters from the ground.
That said I don't see anything that crazy bad looking, especially if we're talking about realism, with people being thrown high in the air by punches and kicks. I'd like to see some examples of what you mean, I'm actually curious.

[ArcaneMaverick]

But it's an exceptionally easy thing to fix and would actively serve to make the game better and less rage and calls of BS.

If a move is mid with a low hitbox, that's probably okay. Arguably "close enough". But I'm talking about the obvious and egregious examples of being on the ground and a high kick hits you. That's impossible in all logical sense of anything. It's indefensible.

Yeah, I'm trying to find my go-to examples. I posted them to imgur but I can't find them anymore. But I can think of two other sources so I'll go grab them.

[ArcaneMaverick]

There are questionable ones in Jin, Claudio Serafino, and Bryan Fury's reveal trailers.

Here is Lili's reveal trailer and definitely at 1:26. Asuka is flat on the ground and that looks like a high attack to me. It literally scoops her up. Even the impact sfx is pretty darn high up and I think that is very important. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GUy7HAUqCE

For comparison here is Asuka's reveal trailer. At 0:44. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p07h8qIsUd4
Same situation. Leeroy is flat on the ground and Asuka does the same thing as Lili. Hits him with an attack that scoops him up, but here sfx impact is clearly low so it all makes sense.

So we know they can do it right where everything makes visual and physical sense.

Here's a video at 3:22. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC3PkiFk0sg High punch by Panda. Went over dude's head who wasn't even standing up yet. Won the round. Even does the "defeated while on the ground" animation for the person who got hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3ZGC9gxxs
0:38 even in slo mo how does the sailor's punch not hit? It goes right through him! Sure this isn't an example of my issue but it's still wack to me. or at 1:13 where that low should have hit.

Found my SF clips too
https://imgur.com/gallery/JmXqyxD
https://imgur.com/gallery/YZQ835u

[ArcaneMaverick]

Found one more video to try and show what I mean. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHz2vDQ2m8E

I think this is a better one and even showcases it at high levels where visual congruity should matter the most.

1:52 there is first a good example of how it should be. A launcher, hit, then it builds the juggle from low to keep it going, twice. Everything makes sense and looks good.

1:56 But that grab does not connect. She's too low, but the game gives it to him anyway and teleports her model to his arms for the win. And at a tournament level this is especially frustrating. Even with one hit, there could have been a comeback. No one knows and but it's not a strange thing to occur.

6:24 A knockdown and then a high kick. To me this is a very bad one. I don't think that should be allowed. Seriously, go frame by frame. it's wack.

Especially 6:32. I think that one is particularly egregious.
Again at 11:56. That's ridiculous. I cannot understand that at all.

And at 13:30 we see an example of how it should be. Knockdown, then have to hit low, then mid to raise them up to juggle.

All in all, I don't think I'm asking for much. If you're a fighting game, the absolute basic thing you need to do is make sure your hits and misses are believable because it's fundamentally how the player interacts with your game.

[ArcaneMaverick]

Sorry, found another just to collect resources for people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnS-iJST688

At 5:10. going down to the ground, high kick juggles. I think that one is pretty blatant.

8:32. Should that high slap launcher have hit that crouching Hwoarang?

[Azael Ijima δ]

Originally posted by FAZE | Davedarko:

Because fighting games work on general rules, not on animation interactions. Each move has set properties, if a move is a mid with low hitbox, it's probably going to scoop up characters from the ground.
That said I don't see anything that crazy bad looking, especially if we're talking about realism, with people being thrown high in the air by punches and kicks. I'd like to see some examples of what you mean, I'm actually curious.

Exactly this. Tekken wasn't really known for it's realism, it has to keep it's technical aspects, even if it occasionally (Very rarely tbh..) make connecting hits look weird.
Now considering the new example you pointed out in 8's trailers, well the hits don't make sense in term of realism like pointed above, but are pretty normal for Tekken.

By that i mean all that Ukemi system which is often underlooked in fighting games, sometimes rolling sideway is a bad idea, sometimes low-kicking wake-up open you to another combo, and sometimes just staying neutral on the ground/preparing a neutral wake-up or backroll open you to moves like that Lili rotating kick, haven't touched Tekken in a long time so a lot of people knowns that a lot better than me.

Originally posted by ArcaneMaverick:

But it's an exceptionally easy thing to fix and would actively serve to make the game better and less rage and calls of BS.

Be careful what you wish for, i've experienced the opposite in some games where your bread and butter combos would completely stop working just because the opposing character is either too big or too small compared to the average stature, and that's a lot more BS/rage than the "issues" described in your thread, trust me.

But if that's a price your willing to pay to get more visual fidelity, i can understand and respect that.