Stalingrad to Berlin -campaign first soviet turns

[Ahjo]

I manage to encircle Stalingrad, but everytime the axis is able to relieve the encirclement from southwest of Kalach by breaking through there on turn 2-3.

Any suggestions or help?

[tommy.w]

Its really hard to offer help without seeing the screen because it could be so many different things - but if you go to the Matrix website they have a very active forum with loads of tips and tricks, after action reports and people who can offer you help.

[trooperrob]

can you make an inner and outer line? I think Ru forces are a little light to do it comfortably.
There are some heavy AA spots there so directing air attack around them may be helpful.
I think you need to strengthen the blocking line, by bringing more in, maybe by weakening the northern flank of the stalingrad pocket and bringing in reserves.
maybe use temp motorisation to get more units in?
Have done it once or twice, and failed once or twice.
If you can get 2 or 3 hexes between the pocket and rescue, the Germans can break one hex, but might not have the mp to continue.
Try air attacks or mobile units to break / spoil the railway.
If you can, try using the rivers / good terrain for defence.
certainly think an additional tank / motorised unit to start would help...

newb at this so advice at your own risk :)

edit inner line can be thin.
outer line, maybe put rubbish units ahead of your main defence line to spoil German attacks, knowing they will lose, but weaken the Germans.
Also, presumably you are bringing the HQ's in, and possibly giving them more arty if possible.
edit 2
I think if you move units to their max range they can be quite weak, fatigue and lack of fuel etc, so be carefull.

[danielprates]

I can usually manage to encircle Stalingrad and keep it encircled. However, they always get air supply. I would like to add to the OP's question, my own question: how do other players manage to stem the flow of airdrops into the city?

I usually leave air to the AI, so I assume they are doing their best to intercept supply missions. And indeed the reports say that transport losses are mainly coming from air combat.

I would imagine that AA hits are crucial to bring transport losses up, but... I usually attach all support AA to the encircling units, as much as I can, but still AA losses are still low compared to the air combat losses.

This is very enerving, as usually air supply missions only fall significantly when I have already pushed german airports way back and they can't reach Stalingrad anymore. That will normally be february or march - which is not historical.

Would love to hear comments on that topic, which more or less relates to the OP's question.

[trooperrob]

I don't think air supply can bring that much in, not for that many units. but if they are not going anywhere keep pushing away from them. Is there something giving info on AA ranges. Think I read somewhere that AA can reach 3 hex from city and unit 2, but can't remember where (just say manual if it is in there, I can reread. Not sure it that was 1,2, or w though.
Good opportunity to cripple the German transport fleet.
I do agree, it took a long time and more force than I would have expected to get winkle the Germans out.

[danielprates]

Originally posted by trooperrob:

I don't think air supply can bring that much in, not for that many units. .

Oh it sure can. Manual states that a pocket will not be reputed encircled if 500 tons of supplies are ferried in (strange rule. That is true for both one regiment and 50 divisions?). As it turns out, I see Stalingrad get 1200, 1500 tons of supply in the initial turns and as the battle rages on, it will slowly diminish as transports get shot down or the airports get pushed away from the pocket.

I had playruns where Stalingrad got supplied for 12, 14 turns in a row, with 500+ tons every turn, making the 'encircled' penalties unnaplicable, thus impossible to grind down that many units in an entreched position.

Hence my question, is it I who is doing something wrong? Can other players usually manage to keep Stalingrad properly encircled (so, less than 500t supplies every turn) for a prolongued period of time, starting from the initial turns of the land encirclemet?

[trooperrob]

The 500 tons may keep away the combat penalties, but presumably the units will suffer winter attrition, you may not be able to destroy them, but can they replace any losses? equipment or manpower?

If you take an airfield, but then lose it, can it repair if encircled?
Does air superiority in the area south and west of the pocket help intercept the transports?

It certainly took me longer than historic to reduce the pocket, but I didn't check the supply numbers.

[danielprates]

Originally posted by trooperrob:

The 500 tons may keep away the combat penalties, but presumably the units will suffer winter attrition, you may not be able to destroy them, but can they replace any losses? equipment or manpower?

If you take an airfield, but then lose it, can it repair if encircled?
Does air superiority in the area south and west of the pocket help intercept the transports?

It certainly took me longer than historic to reduce the pocket, but I didn't check the supply numbers.

In my experience, if they are encircled (geographically speaking) but without encirclemenet penalties due to getting 500t supplies every turn, you are basically just destroying your manpower and equipment throwing them against big, tough stacks of big units, which can hold out for months and only suffer normal losses as they would in a good, cozy defensible position. Consider if that feels right.

If a 250.000 troops pocket is encircled but manages to avoid the encirclement maluses for 3-4 months, either there is some game balance issues there, or - which again, is what I am asking - there is a way to reduce supply flights that I am not using properly.

[trooperrob]

agreed, the 500 tons should probably be modified by number of units encircled.

4. The scales of supply for the British and US armies were indeed lavish. Allied planners reckoned that 700 tonnes of supplies would consumed by each division a day of which 250 tonnes would be required for the forward areas. By contrast, the Germans were much more economical – it was reckoned that their divisions consumed no more than 200 tonnes a day.

From the same source:
"a german inf div needed 30 tons of fodder for horses. "
eating the horses might reduce the food load, but, without the horses, artillery would be far more difficult to move, dramatically reducing firepower where you need it.
500 tons for 20 odd divs wouldn't go far.

I assume you are checking the mission weather profile. Found in witw landings go awry if Germanys strike in bad weather and your pilots stay in bed. but otherwise agree that the divs do not degrade fast enough from a realistic or historic point of view.

[danielprates]

I am not so much at odds with the mechanic of having 500t of supplies avoiding the encirclement penalties. I mean, it is arbitrary and a one-size-fits-all supply requirement is strange by any parameters, however maybe there is a good in-game reason for that. Perhaps it reduces calculations, reduces processing capacity required, etc etc. I can very well imagine it is hard for the game to compute every single encircled unit and calculate how many supplies it needs in a particular turn.

If it is one of those things that intend to provide a better game experience, very well so be it.

What I don't understand is why this subject isnt brought up more when talking about Stalingrad. Either everyone is managing to shoot down many transports and I am not, or I am doing something else wrong. Or, everybody else has the StalingradFestung surviving for 4 months, alive and kicking, and is not reporting it in AARs.

This is the thing. I am only asking this: will anyone else share their experience with transport interception? Specially so with the scenarios with Staingrad in it?

[Ahjo]

The air weather is bad for the first turns, so its hard to get air superiority, also with inexperienced soviet pilots, you get lot of operational losses.

Somehow, I just cant manage to keep the pocket closed. The axis just carves their way through on their turn 2, even though I close the pocket with 2 hexes thick.

Also trying to ground attack axis divisions on turn 1 just resulted in a huge amount of operational losses for the VVS.

[Ahjo]

Seems like I managed to get stalingrad encircled, no counter attacks turn 1,2,3. Now just waiting for Operaion winter storm to commence, and Manstein trying to link up with Stalingrad again.

I wasnt able to launch the vast offensives against the Hungarian and Italian armies on the left flank, unlike the red army did in real life.

[Ahjo]

Seems to be impossible to encircle axis forces on the main frontline. They always rout my mobile and infantry divisions.

[trooperrob]

my tips, don't move your full movement allowance, unless you are happy for the unit to be pushed back, first turn should be ok though... it leaves you quite weak. I often have a disposable unit in front as a spoiler, I almost expect a couple of units to rout. Try to have the tank corps /divs as reaction forces rather than front line. I need to bring forces from N of stanlingrad down to block south. The germans are unlikely to attack northeast.
There are not that many really good divisions at the start, so you need to build xp and guards units.
The germans bite if you are not careful, so watch where their good units are and play cautiously.

You do have some reserves you can bring in, and you can create units...
try and bring enough down to hold the encirclement.

If you fail, you should still be able to chase the Germans back to Crimea / Stalingrad from the south.
If any of this advice is not good, please correct me.

[Ahjo]

I destroyed the sixth army in Stalingrad february 4th. Real date of surrender in real life, was february 2nd, so pretty much in time. They retreated out of the caucasus to the river Don.

I took Rostov easily.

Yes, I've used the tank corps to try to encircle german divisions, to force them into isolation.

The germans seem to be able to attack well in heavy ground snow and a blizzard as well as in the summer. Unlike me :D.


I was unable to encircle and destroy the Hungarian and Italian armies unlike in real life the soviets did.

My armies are about 50 miles from Smolensk, and 40 miles from Orel.

Voronezh is mine also.