War in the East vs War in the East 2

[Joe]

Is it worth getting the second game if I own the first one? From what I can tell it looks fairly similar.

[loki1006]

it really isn't. Have a look at the manual which is on line here and the matrix forums. Look at the 'differences' section and the player's notes, that should give you some feel for what has changed.

[danielprates]

They are the same game on appearances only. No.2 is vastly improved.

I wonder if we will be getting also a WitW second version.

[Cast Iron Churl]

From my experience it's much easier to play than the first one. The logistics and air portion of the game actually make sense and it isn't as complicated as it seems. It takes some reading, sure, but you do not need to micro if you don't want to. The air portion always confused the hell out of me in the first one. It's so abstract.

I want to give WitW another try after playing WitE2. Operation Torch especially seems like it would be fun now that I actually understand how depots and air directives work.

[Person of Interest]

It would make sense to me if there was an upgrade option for WITE1 owners for a "nominal fee". Double purchases are just too onerous should you wish to upgrade.

[homer82]

Originally posted by Person of Interest:

It would make sense to me if there was an upgrade option for WITE1 owners for a "nominal fee". Double purchases are just too onerous should you wish to upgrade.

I would agree a nominal fee would be appropriate IF WitE2 was merely an upgrade to WitE1. It's not merely an upgrade. The differences between the two games makes them just that - two different games with the second being much better than the first and worth every penny.

[Person of Interest]

You may be right as I can only view this from the heights of the WITE2 overlook.

So your position is that an additional $80 is justified in totality for the difference between the two games? Or would an elective upgrade fee of $40, for sake of argument, go some distance to ease the pain of $160 outlay? I am trying to bridge any gap between buyer and seller on this topic. A win / win for both parties, so to speak, twice a year sale notwithstanding.

[Cast Iron Churl]

I'm having trouble thinking of a single developer that has decided to only charge an upgrade fee for a sequel if you own the original. Take a look at the manual.

https://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/WarInTheEast2/War%20in%20the%20East%202%20EBOOK.pdf

The reason I say look at it is that the game itself is of the same quality. There really isn't anything else like it in the hobby except for its predecessors. Sure, there are other great games out there dealing with the Eastern Front, but even the really good ones (DC:Barbarossa) don't come close if you are interested in a more granular experience. The only thing I can think of that is comparable are WDS/JTS games which look and play like something out of 1999, not to mention they have barely functioning AI.

So yes, if you actually like wargaming the eastern front, $80 is sort of a steal considering the amount of time you'll spend pouring over details and playing.

[[TFM]bobcat]

Originally posted by LookAtThisCat:

From my experience it's much easier to play than the first one. The logistics and air portion of the game actually make sense and it isn't as complicated as it seems. It takes some reading, sure, but you do not need to micro if you don't want to. The air portion always confused the hell out of me in the first one. It's so abstract.

I want to give WitW another try after playing WitE2. Operation Torch especially seems like it would be fun now that I actually understand how depots and air directives work.

Personally, I have yet to really understand the logistics of WITE2 and I found WITE1 so much simpler in that regard. In WITE1, the logistics broke down to, how far are your units from the nearest intact railhead? If that railhead is hundreds of miles away, your units will be starved of supply. If its just a hex away, then those units will be charged up close to if not to their full mp.

In WITE2, I can have units literally sitting on top of depots on fully repaired rail lines for multiple turns and they will get less than half their full mps. And this is in early 1943, so there isn't that penalty the Germans get for winter 1941-42

[loki1006]

I'd suggest the key difference is that WiTE2 is built on a shortage model, so its how do you optimise supply and allocate demand. The key problem in #1 was always the frictionless rail system that did indeed deliver near limitless supply to the front line - done for a good reason given the processing capacity of computers at the time but fundamentally unrealistic

1942 and 1943 for the Germans are crudely a trade off - hunt an auto win and you will be stretched. I have a HtH game into July 42 and just can't get the Pzrs much over 30 MP. But if you decide to go for a Dec 44 win (ie the Soviets don't match the HWM) then you can play e very different game with very different logistical implications - of course play for that and miss and its down to how well can you defend Berlin with your economy falling apart and the Soviets pushing into the Reich