Remove the curse reroll limitation.

[Airkixer]

Stupid rule. I'm not playing with Meddler. Stop ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ forcing me to.

[Tako]

yeah they force you to

[ETsc2]

Meddler annoys new players, however, I have seen many experienced players use 4+ Meddlers or only Meddlers (and never upgrade them) beat the choose-party normal difficulty. This seems to indicate that meddler is the strongest tier 1 blue hero, even I was a little surprised.

[henrebotha]

Meddler is really strong. Try to learn why this is the case. You will be a better player for it.

[DaviddesJ]

You shouldn't have to play with anything you don't like. I think there should be unlimited rerolls, but if you reroll then it breaks your streak.

[henrebotha]

引用自 DaviddesJ：

You shouldn't have to play with anything you don't like. I think there should be unlimited rerolls, but if you reroll then it breaks your streak.

There are leaderboards for things other than streaks.

[DaviddesJ]

引用自 henrebotha：

引用自 DaviddesJ：

You shouldn't have to play with anything you don't like. I think there should be unlimited rerolls, but if you reroll then it breaks your streak.

There are leaderboards for things other than streaks.

Sure, but you can't prevent people from rerolling to get a "better" start if you aren't considering streaks. That's the only case where rerolling really makes much difference.

[DaviddesJ]

引用自 ETsc2：

Meddler annoys new players, however, I have seen many experienced players use 4+ Meddlers or only Meddlers (and never upgrade them) beat the choose-party normal difficulty. This seems to indicate that meddler is the strongest tier 1 blue hero, even I was a little surprised.

I'm not sure that shows it's the strongest T1 blue hero. Seems like it would be even easier to do this with some of the other blue heroes. 5 Initiates or 5 Mages seems better than 5 Meddlers. And way less dependent on finding the right items.

[ETsc2]

引用自 DaviddesJ：

引用自 ETsc2：

Meddler annoys new players, however, I have seen many experienced players use 4+ Meddlers or only Meddlers (and never upgrade them) beat the choose-party normal difficulty. This seems to indicate that meddler is the strongest tier 1 blue hero, even I was a little surprised.

I'm not sure that shows it's the strongest T1 blue hero. Seems like it would be even easier to do this with some of the other blue heroes. 5 Initiates or 5 Mages seems better than 5 Meddlers. And way less dependent on finding the right items.

However, they use Meddlers go deepest, other blue tier 1 hero just be defeated around floor 12, don't forget, you cannot use any heroes beyond tier 1 or upgrade any hero. Of course, Meddler may not the best, but I hesitate you can do better with 5 Initiates or 5 Mages you mentioned.

[henrebotha]

引用自 DaviddesJ：

引用自 henrebotha：

There are leaderboards for things other than streaks.

Sure, but you can't prevent people from rerolling to get a "better" start if you aren't considering streaks. That's the only case where rerolling really makes much difference.

Objectively not true. Speedruns benefit a lot from the right start.

[henrebotha]

引用自 DaviddesJ：

引用自 ETsc2：

Meddler annoys new players, however, I have seen many experienced players use 4+ Meddlers or only Meddlers (and never upgrade them) beat the choose-party normal difficulty. This seems to indicate that meddler is the strongest tier 1 blue hero, even I was a little surprised.

I'm not sure that shows it's the strongest T1 blue hero. Seems like it would be even easier to do this with some of the other blue heroes. 5 Initiates or 5 Mages seems better than 5 Meddlers. And way less dependent on finding the right items.

No shot 5 mages beat out 5 meddlers.

[DaviddesJ]

引用自 henrebotha：

引用自 DaviddesJ：

Sure, but you can't prevent people from rerolling to get a "better" start if you aren't considering streaks. That's the only case where rerolling really makes much difference.

Objectively not true. Speedruns benefit a lot from the right start.

Of course everything benefits from the right start. What I said is that it's logically impossible to prevent people from restarting until they get a good start. It can break their streak, but you can't keep them from doing it.

[KingOfCharge]

With meddler, you lock anything that isn’t the bones because all of them are good enough. The bones spawn is bad but not as bad as it looks because the bones doesn’t attack yet and meddler can just clean the rest of the floor up then clean his mess.
And to those wondering, yes, meddlers are the blue that goes the farthest in choose-party normal with no upgrades and in mono-x it is not even close between meddler and the rest of the blues (I did one attempt with each and meddler got to 16 while rest were 8 or 9 except initiate which died to troll lol).
And I also did basic comps (one with reliable damage and one with otherwise unreliable damage) which were identical except for the blue and meddler still got the farthest with both teams (the one with reliable damage got to 14 with meddler, 11 with mage, 8 or 9 with other tested blues. The one with less reliable damage got to 10 with cultist and meddler, 8 with mage, 6 with initiate, prodigy and student untested). Small sample sizes but the results all say meddler good.
The reliable damage one had fighter, thief, defender, healer while the unreliable damage one had lazy, scoundrel, squire, mystic.

[DaviddesJ]

引用自 KingOfCharge：

With meddler, you lock anything that isn’t the bones because all of them are good enough.

I haven't tried it a lot but I think you should mostly reroll the 2 mana / 2 pain, with basic unmodified meddler. Especially on the first reroll.

[KingOfCharge]

引用自 DaviddesJ：

引用自 KingOfCharge：

With meddler, you lock anything that isn’t the bones because all of them are good enough.

I haven't tried it a lot but I think you should mostly reroll the 2 mana / 2 pain, with basic unmodified meddler. Especially on the first reroll.

I don’t. 2 mana pain is still pretty good for a t1 and I’m not risking multiple bones for the possibility of 1 extra mana from 1 side. The cantrip maybe.
The one exception is if I have something that makes the bones stop being negative value, in which case I will always roll the pain sides too.

[Obi]

引用自 henrebotha：

引用自 DaviddesJ：

You shouldn't have to play with anything you don't like. I think there should be unlimited rerolls, but if you reroll then it breaks your streak.

There are leaderboards for things other than streaks.

So you make the game worse for everybody for the sake of e-sports? What is this, Overwatch? Just block rerolled runs entirely from the leader boards. I don't want to play the skeleton warrior. Just the chance of it happening makes me ignore certain modes now.