Really Could Use more QoL Features Here

[Engamer01]

The game is fun, but achievement and DNA hunting is really tedious because there's no select a hole function. If you want achievements, you have to start a full game from hole 1 on a course. Missed an achievement or DNA in the late part of a course? Too bad, back to hole 1 on the same course with you. Over. And over. Again.

Using the unstuck function doesn't help either as that resets you to the beginning of the hole but adds a stroke (or takes 1 or 2 energy) which voids any achievements and relic progress on the hole forcing you to restart from hole 1 on a course if you want another shot at the achievement or a better shot at 80% DNA for relics.

If Wonderputt Forever gets any more updates in the future, there should be an option to let you pick a hole on a course instead of always starting you at hole 1 of your chosen course. It would make the achievement/DNA grind less tedious since you wouldn't have to play from hole 1 every time to work back to the hole you want an achievement/80% DNA on.

[Damp Gnat]

Great feedback!
From a design point of view, after the novelty of experiencing an animated course unfold, a score result is established and ready to improve on in the same tradition as competitive sports. This is intended as the primary replay incentive, so all other design choices serve that and protect it from loopholes etc.

For instance - if a hole restart also reset the stroke/energy count, that would mean every player would be wracking up Albatrosses and top scores for every hole, which would reduce the leader boards to mere time challenges (since points are shaved off per second). This demonstrates how delicate these mechanics are when a tiny change can break them.

From the point of view of seeing achievements as a prime goal (eg. for completionists), I can appreciate how this clashes with the grind of completing a full run. But then... full runs were always intended to be the main drive/motive.

Perhaps achievements in this game are doing more harm than good? Maybe it's trying to have the cake _and_ eat it? Game mechanics are slippery beasts, I'd love for others to weigh in here :)

[Engamer01]

I can understand the concern over scumming, but I do have ideas for it.

The pick a hole option could only be offered after you clear a course for the first time. This would let players that are achievement/relic hunting to have an easier time to work toward them after playing a course once. The player could be prompted when picking a hole that individual and overall scores won't be kept, but achievement and relic progress will.

I also understand the ideas run counter to the Trips mode which is to see how far you can go before you lose and game over. That mode won't need any changes since it's meant to be a challenge especially if you invoke any modifiers like Roguelike (game ends when your one ball is lost).

[Damp Gnat]

Interestingly, I believe this is roughly how the first Wonderputt behaves. At some point internal discussions lead to a decision to remove this ability. I will raise this point to investigate the reasons and reassess. Thanks again for the feedback!

[Damp Gnat]

Hey, so... reimplementing the "Jump to hole" functionality is kinda doable. However, this does come with the potential of causing confusion for players. Some achievements require the completion of multiple holes but the descriptions are not explicit in this requirement (because there was no need when players do full runs anyway).

For instance - "Reach the Earth's center without burning up" can be interpreted as just that, with players jumping to the final planet hole, completing and wondering why they're not getting rewarded. Rewording the achievements with succinct goals to this level of detail and getting them localised to 14 languages is not really a practical solution.

I'm naturally cautious of opening a can of worms. I'm open to suggestions/thoughts if any come to mind? :)

[Engamer01]

Yeah I can see now trying for achievements that run multiple holes might not be practical for a hole selection feature. The only other alternative I can think of as a compromise is if a checkpoint system could be doable. Since the main courses are divided into segments of three holes each, then a checkpoint could be offered on the first hole of each segment.

Like if you reach hole 6 of a course and mess up, you could get an option to restart from hole 4 instead of 1. Then backtracking wouldn't be quite as painful like getting to hole 18 and messing up to have to start all over at hole 1 again.

I know on the Earth's Center achievement, I came close to getting that, but I burnt up on my last shot in the last hole of the course segment so I have to try again from hole 1 on that course currently.

Lastly thank you for taking the time to read my comments.

[Damp Gnat]

There is also the issue of addressing a lot of unlockable logic that relate to full run results, such as scoring under par, and then communicating those forfeits to the player.

I like the 3 hole theme checkpoint idea, but that would reset some stats and not others (such as stroke counts) which leaves the choice of either scumming or confusion. It's certainly a tricky thing to solve cleanly! :D

Now that the game has been out for several months, the achievement mean data has settled - https://steamcommunity.com/stats/1766540/achievements

Admittedly it has a steeper falloff than some games, but it doesn't look all that different to some popular titles such as:
https://steamcommunity.com/stats/SuperMeatBoy/achievements
https://steamcommunity.com/stats/477160/achievements
https://steamcommunity.com/stats/977880/achievements

I think for now at least, it might be wise to keep the difficulty level as it is, and like the games above - maintain the high accomplishment that players get for unlocking low percentage achievements.

Thanks again, I always appreciate the feedback!

[Dohi64]

just gonna add +1 to individual hole select. it's a pretty basic feature to not have. enable it only after a course has been completed, make descriptions clearer re: full runs and individual holes, disable scores or leadearboards or whatever. I don't care about collectibles or achievements but demanding full replays when trying to do a thing only involves hole 13 is ridiculous. especially in the 100-hole trips.

> I think for now at least, it might be wise to keep the difficulty level as it is

you're confusing difficulty with tedium.

[MacGuffin_]

Originally posted by Dohi64:

you're confusing difficulty with tedium.

Yea, trying for achievements in this game sucks, especially when it causes you to repeat 17 holes just to get one more shot. Being able to select from at least the hole sets of 3 would cut down on a lot of the tedium. If you are having trouble with progress or scores, just disable progress other than achivements and DNA from course selection. This game is great, but achievement hunting is not.

[Boomgg]

I cannot say I have reached the point of achievement hunting, but I want to +1 in hopes that something may be implemented when I do achievement hunting to make things easier

[Boomgg]

Originally posted by Dohi64:

I don't care about collectibles or achievements but demanding full replays when trying to do a thing only involves hole 13 is ridiculous. especially in the 100-hole trips.

As someone who first completed the first trip. Yeah this is annoying to deal with. For people like me that just want to collect the collectibles and don't care about score, this actually discourages me from replaying the game. I think that is how I feel about this game entirely. I would be much more willing to replay the game more, and even be more encouraged to replay the game for the leaderboard/achievements if there was a pick the hole QOL.

[Damp Gnat]

Thanks all for weighing in! Tedium or frustration in going for unlockables was obviously not the intention. It's a result of clashing goals and consolidation. An issue I hope to resolve cleanly at some point, without breaking the primary flow.

[Coffee]

Still nothing was done for this? Feel to buy but not sure due to this.