Let's talk about the 3MJ

[Thundercracker]

the three masted junk (3MJ) is the ship you buy at dragon cliffs. it is the medium ship available in the emerald archipelago. it has three masts, and they are loaded with what are called "junk sails."

i find it to be the best overall ship in the game, though i've yet to sail the sanbuq or brig.

now, i've seen reports that in this patch, the 3MJ is super vulnerable to heeling, that reefing is ineffectual, and so on. i've just completed an open ocean voyage with the 3MJ, and i find it is still the best overall ship.

first, the winds on my journey had about 180 degrees of play. it took me 6 days to travel from dragon cliffs to fort aestrin. on those days, for the first two, the wind was mostly coming from 5 o'clock to almost 3 o'clock. the next day, the wind was mostly from 3 o'clock. the last two days, the wind was between 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock.

as for my sails, i only had to reef one, the central mast, and that was primarily during a pair of storms on the first day. my fore and aft masts stayed at full sail the entire time at sea. i did notice that when the wind was strong, and i was sailing as close to it as i could, i would heel and take on an alarming (nonzero) amount of water. i'd eliminate the heeling by reefing the central sail one or two "rungs" on the sail. at the absolute worst, on high seas with a strong wind, i had to reef the middle sail between 50-75%.

when reefing the middle sail, my speed varied between 5-7 knots, and 9-11 knots, depending on the actual strength of the wind, i'd assume.

at no time did i drift off course, the 3MJ holds course like a champion. i woke up in irons twice. both were quick fixes. to be clear, i was underway every sleep. so long as there's any kind of wave action, it is fairly easy to de-iron the 3MJ.

i should also mention i took ~1500 lbs of cargo. i had a box of gold, two boxes of iron, three boxes of tea, three barrels of spices, and three boxes of dates.

i was trying to push the ship, but not to the point of actually sinking. i'd heel fairly often. i had no problems seeing the water in my ship. when i found myself heeling, i'd just reef the central sail another rung on the sail. as i reported above, generally, the first rung was enough.

now there is one important detail. i'm a confirmed lubber, i dont really know much about sailing at all. my assumption was that you want the sail perpendicular to the wind, but in looking up why a full tailwind is not the wind that will make a given sailboat go the fastest, i learned that you do not want your sail 90 degrees to the wind.

i've started trimming my sails by giving them a full run, and tightening the trim just a little bit past the point where i get strong wind resistance. this gives my sails about a 45 degree angle to the wind, and it's been making me fly across the water. i am really wondering if the problems reported with the 3MJ this patch are the result of the sails being too broad in the face of the wind.

[ReZpawner]

How can you rate it the best ship in the game without trying the others though? That part doesn't make much sense to me.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by ReZpawner:

How can you rate it the best ship in the game without trying the others though? That part doesn't make much sense to me.

because the only ship that can be statistically better is exponentially more difficult to sail. i already know that in pure statistics, the sanbuq is slightly worse than the 3MJ.

[Koshkinets]

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

i find it to be the best overall ship in the game, though i've yet to sail the sanbuq or brig

I mean, I agree the Junk is very good, but this is the definition of an unqualified opinion. How could you know it's better if you have nothing to compare it against?
I have sailed all three and I find they each represent a different niche and are good in their own ways, so here's a loose collection of my thoughts on them.

The Sanbuq is the least challenging to sail and goes upwind like a dream, but I find it the most aesthetically dull, very tublike and featureless. Bit of a rough model too, the steering column doesn't even connect to anything belowdecks.
While the cargo bay is spacious it's not terribly easy to organise, you pack it once and you're not seeing the fore end again until it's time to unpack. Good thing it's stable in high seas and doesn't require mobile ballast like the Brig. Lots of room abovedecks for activities, though I don't know what you'd use it for beyond a BBQ since maps and tables don't get along together yet.
The rudder is awfully weak, giving it a turning circle too wide to even get it out of the dock after you buy it, and doesn't self-correct well enough to hold a course either, so requires a lot of babysitting during waking hours. You'll need to reef one sail or the other to achieve anything approaching a tight turn, wind pressure differential has easily as much of an effect as the rudder itself.
My least favourite of the three overall, and the one I've put the least hours into, though it's not without redeeming features so I'm sure it's loved by some.

The Junk is a speed machine. Can nearly match the Sanbuq upwind and will handily outpace the Brig reaching or running with one sail tied behind her back. While none of them will realistically get above 12 knots, the Junk will hold the highest average speed over any reasonable distance, taking wind variance into account.
It's the most aesthetically pleasing and has a nice rivergoing houseboat kind of feel to it, though it's not without its modeling flaws.
Frankly all of the game's boats are somewhat lacking in flair and roughly bodged together compared to their real world references. Sailboats tended to be much more artistically adorned and neatly finished for the cost and craftsmanship that went into them, so hopefully we'll get a couple of art passes down the line to rectify this. Early access and all that.
Anyway, the Junk having the smallest hull means it's lacking in cargo capacity, though it does make the best use of the volume it has available, and it's a good thing the cabin has a proper bed because there's no room whatsoever to play house in. You won't be opening a floating art gallery or hauling logs and sculptures in this by any means. The hatches in the floor are a nice touch though, nothing else actually has moving parts on it yet. Hopefully we can expect cabin doors in the future.
It has the most functional wheelhouse with almost all of the winches within easy reach, and a nice flat surface behind the wheel to store your instruments.
If we're talking heeling and flooding, I honestly think the Brig is worse than the Junk for that, at least the Junk doesn't risk taking on water going straight into the waves.

The Brig is the collector's ship, something for when you have too much gold burning a hole in your pocket. At least it's the only one you'll have a chance of fitting the Sailwind painting and the four poster bed in. Considering how bloody slow it is you'll have plenty of time to admire your collection of art pieces and chronocompasses.
It's very intimidating looking with all the sails and winches but realistically you rarely have to touch them. At this point there are a handful of preset configurations I put the sails in depending on wind speed and direction, and I don't bother changing them until the wind makes them lose power or threaten capsizing. Any speed gain you'd get racing back and forth across the deck to constantly chase the wind vector is insignificant. That time is better spent getting drunk and fishing off the quarterdeck.
It has the biggest cargo hold, obviously, with handy but annoyingly shaped racks for putting crates on, which will never sit level because the long planks of the racks are underneath the support ribs instead of above for some reason.
The main feature though is the enormous amount of weight the Brig can handle. I'd reckon she can comfortably haul more than 10,000 lbs, though the most I've tried is about 8200, not counting my own supplies and furnishings since I have no idea what they weigh. No matter how much you load it down with you'll want to keep something heavy within easy reach for windward ballast, she heels like it's nobody's business.
As mentioned above she takes on water far too easily, even with ballast, though rarely enough to be threatening. Normally the gaff sail is the culprit but if you have the squares turned to the side they cause about as much heeling, so don't turn them unless you need to, and don't use the gaff with the squares unless the wind is weak. Get used to randomly taking on water in any wavy conditions though, sometimes it just dunks itself head on.
This is more due to the odd water physics than anything but the Brig is long enough that sometimes the rear end will dip below the surface when you backslide down a wave, and you can see the seabed since you're not technically "in" the water. Hopefully this is fixed because it'll only get worse when we get even bigger boats. Screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/DXlWuTC.jpg
Also the windows in the captain's cabin are just painted on. Raw Lion pls.
Overall though it's pretty good, easier to sail than it looks and with tons of room to play house in, probably my second place after the Junk since it is downright tedious to tack in.

[ReZpawner]

Originally posted by Koshkinets:

Lots of room abovedecks for activities, though I don't know what you'd use it for beyond a BBQ since maps and tables don't get along together yet.

Mainly food\water\fishing storage tbh. Maps make for great wallpaper though!
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1822274875860278018/05920F58B04E9570C41395268409AD515AE66F59/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

Other than that, I think you're pretty spot on with your observations - though you seem a bit harsh on the Sanbuq.
Due to the minimalist layout, it takes you next to no time to get out from your hammock and up to the wheel\sails in case something goes wrong. It's insanely easy to walk around on (the junk is claustrophobic, and the brig would be a deathtrap should fall-damage ever be implemented).
The major selling-point of it for new players like me, though, is that it can brave the harshest seas with minimal effort. I've yet to even be worried of sinking with it, whereas with the Brig, I capsized in smooth waters coming out of the harbour, because I had loaded the cargo on the top deck.
Haven't tried the junk much, but I'm planning to test it out when I explore the emerald isles a bit more. Right now it's just an expensive view.

[boris.glevrk]

Personally, the 3MJ can survive almost all situation with only the main sail (completely) reefed.
But is it the most suspectible ship to heeling? definitely.
It's not unusual for you to be forced to sail with 2 sails for days because the winds are constantly strong and you are close hauled.

The thing is, the hull is wrong. The 3MJ as we know it is using the Japanese Yagatabune ("House-shaped boat") hull which is not suitable for open ocean at all. The deck is too low and the water is very easy to flood the interior.

Even the 4MJ (as shown on Twitter) is not using the correct hull. It's still using Japanese coastal/river boat hull, just bigger.

[Big Jim]

I drove the sanbuq over the triangle, gold rock - aestrin - happy bay - dragon cliff, and then the junk. The Junk drives better but doesn't have a watertight hold like the Sanbuq because of the many windows.

[konstantinoskountousias]

the 3MJ is the faster but the Sunbuq is the best over all because it have the most space to move and work + it can carry a lot of cargo, i believe it can carry 5k lbr in open ocean, it can for sure carry 14k lbr in calm waters and i know that because i was carrying up to 36 iron to my recent millionaire challenge... the brig needs a buf btw because it sould be the faster of all, just make its square sails to turn more like you do with the cog...

[jthecamel]

Such good and bad points for each ship, thank you all. I've now sailed all three around the big triangle and find each enjoyable for completely different reasons.

The Brig's balcony and aft cabin are just plain relaxing. The wind sounds disappear, you're surrounded (in my case) with all a sailor needs to survive, food, water, charts, tools and grog. its easy on this ship to picture yourself as a true captain.
The down side is the heeling problem and working upwind, which can be insufferable.

The 3MJ I would say, is the best of the three as it covers all the bases. Storage, I love the hatched areas for placing my cargo. A roomy cabin area and long walls for shelves. Sails like a dream in all directions and conditions.
The down side for me, is its looks. I'm not a fan of the sails, though they do make reefing easier to calculate. I wasn't raised with this type of sail so its purely a bias on my part.

The sanduq is for me the most aesthetically pleasing. I like the long open deck and the wide storage area. The sails are graceful and her lines clean. Standing on her deck I get a more open view of the sea around me and I like that.
The down side, it doesn't do anything as well as one or both of the others.

That said, if I were forced to choose but one of these ships, to the exclusion of the others...I'd take the Sanduq.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Personally, the 3MJ can survive almost all situation with only the main sail (completely) reefed.
But is it the most suspectible ship to heeling? definitely.
It's not unusual for you to be forced to sail with 2 sails for days because the winds are constantly strong and you are close hauled.

The thing is, the hull is wrong. The 3MJ as we know it is using the Japanese Yagatabune ("House-shaped boat") hull which is not suitable for open ocean at all. The deck is too low and the water is very easy to flood the interior.

Even the 4MJ (as shown on Twitter) is not using the correct hull. It's still using Japanese coastal/river boat hull, just bigger.

i'm glad you responded because i did want to ask, how are you orienting your sails? are you making the same mistake i did and are setting them 90 degrees to the wind?

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Personally, the 3MJ can survive almost all situation with only the main sail (completely) reefed.
But is it the most suspectible ship to heeling? definitely.
It's not unusual for you to be forced to sail with 2 sails for days because the winds are constantly strong and you are close hauled.

The thing is, the hull is wrong. The 3MJ as we know it is using the Japanese Yagatabune ("House-shaped boat") hull which is not suitable for open ocean at all. The deck is too low and the water is very easy to flood the interior.

Even the 4MJ (as shown on Twitter) is not using the correct hull. It's still using Japanese coastal/river boat hull, just bigger.

i'm glad you responded because i did want to ask, how are you orienting your sails? are you making the same mistake i did and are setting them 90 degrees to the wind?

No. I try to keep them minimum angle that still produces propulsion. That's why I'm having less problem in broad reach/ beam reach than in close haul.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

i'm glad you responded because i did want to ask, how are you orienting your sails? are you making the same mistake i did and are setting them 90 degrees to the wind?

No. I try to keep them minimum angle that still produces propulsion. That's why I'm having less problem in broad reach/ beam reach than in close haul.

huh, so i should have been having more problems than you from the start, but the opposite was observed. i really am mystified about how we've had such different experiences in the same ship.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

No. I try to keep them minimum angle that still produces propulsion. That's why I'm having less problem in broad reach/ beam reach than in close haul.

huh, so i should have been having more problems than you from the start, but the opposite was observed. i really am mystified about how we've had such different experiences in the same ship.

You are just more lucky. That's all.

High wind+close haul + current wind change is just unplayable.
Wind change 5-10 degrees to your irons and you stop, 5-10 degrees to your side and you heel.
That's all there's to it. Stop asking questions, suggest for a change.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

huh, so i should have been having more problems than you from the start, but the opposite was observed. i really am mystified about how we've had such different experiences in the same ship.

You are just more lucky. That's all.

High wind+close haul + current wind change is just unplayable.
Wind change 5-10 degrees to your irons and you stop, 5-10 degrees to your side and you heel.
That's all there's to it. Stop asking questions, suggest for a change.

i spent two full days at close haul, and the winds were fairly high for most of that. i only heeled with all three sails fully deployed. furling just the middle sail to 50% deployed was enough so that i did not heel. never once did the wind shift enough to put me into irons, at least not while i was awake and actually controlling the ship. nor did a crosswind cause me to heel when i had been set for a close haul. especially not when i had raised enough of the middle sail to not heel.

it is perfectly fair to ask why these things are happening to you and not to me. i doubt luck is much a factor. i have spent too much time over too many saves for it to simply be luck.

i mean as a really quick and strong example, when the wind shifts 5-10 degrees, i am not ironed or pushed to heeling, my ship tends to follow the wind. not perfectly, but over time my ship will tend to preserve it's sail orientation to the wind, provided the helm is loose and the wind does not make a dramatic, sudden shift. something more than 10 degrees.

i've been sailing the 3MJ around for some time now, and even in the current patch i feel it sails like a dream. i havent been caught in irons more often, and i havent really even taken on more water, let alone sunk the silly tub.

[jthecamel]

May be the difference is whether the helm is locked or free? I run into far more problems locked then free

[spud]

unpopular opinion I suppose, I have all 3 medium ships and the brig is by far my favorite to use, also contrary to the popular opinion on here I found the 3MJ to take on water much quicker than the brig, it just sits too low in the water compared to the others. The others just can't compete with the storage space on the brig, and after using all three ships other than near head on wind the speed differences are negligible. All in all i think between the 3 it comes down to personal preference.