Help with tacking the brig

[Redivh]

I setup the brig as a schooner but I'm not able to tack. As I turn through the wind I always run out of speed and come to a complete stop before I'm able to complete the turn. No matter what I try I can never tack with this ship.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3108947477

[steveonw]

Having trouble with tacking your schooner? Here are a few strategies to consider that could help improve your maneuvering:

Sail Trim: Make sure your sails are properly trimmed for the point of sail you're on just before you start the tack. The sails should not be too tight or too loose. Proper sail trim can affect the speed and momentum you carry through the turn.

Speed: Build up enough speed before the maneuver. If you're slowing down too fast, you may not have enough momentum to carry you through the wind. A higher speed going into the tack will help you maintain inertia.

Rudder Angle: Turn the rudder gradually. A sudden or hard turn can stall the boat by creating too much drag. Smooth and steady movements are key.

Approach Angle: The angle at which you approach the tack is critical. You want to be close-hauled (sailing as close to the wind as possible without the sails flapping) when you begin the tack.

Practice: Tacking is a maneuver that requires feel and experience. Each ship may have its own quirks in how it handles a tack, especially in a game. Practicing the maneuver can help you get a better sense of how the ship responds.

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by Redivh:

I setup the brig as a schooner but I'm not able to tack. As I turn through the wind I always run out of speed and come to a complete stop before I'm able to complete the turn. No matter what I try I can never tack with this ship.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3108947477

in addition to everything steveonw said:
i'm a lubber, so forgive my not remembering the specific sail names, but your two rearmost. you might need to furl them before you tack.

i have the junk version, just as my rearmost, and it tends to want to catch the wind head-on, and keep me locked there. by the time i'm sure i'm not turning anymore, and the wind just isnt following me, i'll have to furl it and drop the squares to reverse into the proper heading.

[boris.glevrk]

Suggestion: lookup Le Papillon on my ship config thread. Your config has too much jibs and too few gaffs, and since jibs have a slightly bigger dead zone than gaff/lateen/junk, that is going to be a problem. Move the foremast forward would help a lot.

When tacking in a schooner-like ship, start with all sails at the tightest, then hard rudder (for brig hull I think half rudder would do; for Sanbuq with large rudder upgrade you can do full rudder as well). Once your jib loses propulsion, turn them to the other side's tightest (loosen current side winches, tighten other side.

In the case of the Brig, due to being the highest drag ship, you may still need to get off and push.

[Redivh]

Thanks for the info, I'll try it out.

[jamespfp]

^^ I suspect Steve and Boris are on the right track. It's easier to tack with less sails than with all sails, and the more sails there are the more they'll trap you in irons when you do manage to get turned into it.

Other games focus more on the differences between fore and aft rigging, in my opinion, games like Naval Action. In short -- the staysails are preventing turns into the wind when they're tight, and will simultaneously cause more tendency to veer downwind and increase heeling. So to tack into the wind it is sometimes necessary to loosen foresails or lose too much speed to them.

Gaffs, on the other hand, will increase the tendency to turn into the wind the more tightly they are trimmed, and also cause heeling when they veer downwind although it is far more likely that you'll see this heeling on the Rudder. I've noticed on the Brig that the Rudder is apt to turn almost 50% to the downwind side if the Gaff is around 90 degrees to the wind, ie. if the sail is screwed in as tight as it can be and the wind is on the beam. To tack, I only need 1 gaff sail to help with the turn. If I have it out 45 degrees on either side, I have to run back and screw it in tight after I initiate the tacking turn on the rudder.

So -- simplest order of operations in my view is:
A - Loosen staysails.
B - Turn into the wind and lock the rudder in the turn. Prior to the update, hard-over worked fine for me with the Brig and I think it still would provided she had enough ballast and speed going into the turn.
C - Run back to the boom winch for the gaff and bring it all the way in, assuming that the ship was running in wind slightly ahead of 45 degrees, toward the beam, when the turn started. If the ship is already close hauled and sailing into wind which is more towards the Bow than the Beam, there's a much higher chance of the Brig stalling and more than likely, the Gaff is already at its tightest setting.
D - Run forward and prepare to tighten the jib on what will hopefully be the windward winch.

One last thing about gaff sails. The more of them there are, the more likely the ship will stall in the turn because of downwind drag, ie. when you get her in irons the ship's speed will more rapidly go into reverse. The turn will gradually get less and less until finally the ship starts to turn in the opposite direction. So, bear in mind with step B that what you're doing is picking a turning circle on the Port or Starboard side. If the need arises to get back into the wind, it might not be necessary to hoist any more sail, only change the turning circle on the Rudder. Jibs will push a ship into reverse simply by putting their knots on the windward side, ie. normally the side they aren't on.

Another forum I checked also gave a great tip regarding the last update which is that the furled sails also cause drag and can be used for reverse turning, and will help in a tacking turn so set any squares you have to help compensate with the stalling. I definitely have noticed this helping with sailing the Brig in very close hauled situations.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by jamespfp:

^^ I suspect Steve and Boris are on the right track. It's easier to tack with less sails than with all sails, .

That's not what I was saying. I was saying getting less jib and more gaff, for gaff has smaller dead zone.

In theory if you can handle sails that fast, the best way to tack is to hard rudder then close stern sails once you are past the complete iron point (directly into wind). But it's not always possible especially if you are using brig gaffs (which is fast open instead of fast close like Junk sails).

[boris.glevrk]

Anyway let's get back to the topic:

To tack in a brig-hulled ship, you would be in a heavily (or exclusively) fore-and-aft rigging.
this means basically gaffs/junks/lateens on the masts, and jibs to your bow.

Here's the problem:
assume wind is due north and you are tacking from NW to NE (i.e., doing a right-turn tacking).
if you keep your sail setting at close hauled NW heading, the following will happen as you turn right (in chronological order):
1. your jibs lose propulsion
2. your gaffs/junks/lateens lose propulsion
3. *your jibs regain reverse propulsion*
4. you pass the iron (due north)
5. your gaffs/junks/lattens regain propulsion.
(6. your jibs pass the point where they would have forward propulsion if you switched them to the other side)

so for a successful tacking, you should release jibs before 3, and tight them up to the other side ( in this case right side) before 6. You also need to do your rudder in a way that guarantees the ship keeps moving until 5. The exact rudder maneuver (full/half/whatever) depends on your ship, rudder, rigging, wind and other factors.

Since jibs have two winches, and in worst case scenarios each of them would need to turn 8 revolutions to go from all the way loose to all the way tight, I tend to not rely on them when tacking. So I might loosen the left side early (even before 1.) and only try to use them after I already regained propulsion on my gaffs/junks/lateens.
This is why I suggest "more gaffs and less jibs/staysails"
Another way is to loosen your left side (again, in this right turn example) by two revolutions from all the way tight. This would fix it to approximately the same position as you would if you are using the other winch (i.e. when wind blows from left, 2 revolutions loose on the left winch is approximately equal to all the way tight on right winch). But in any case the jibs do have a bigger dead zone and thus I recommend maximizing your gaff/junk/lateen and only use jibs as auxiliary.