It's official. The Brig sucks.

[X-SR71]

Well, officially from me, at least. I can't get to like it at all. It's too big and fat, while still being to flimsy. Huge annoying turning radius while still taking water with just a bit of heeling. I've tried all archipelagos with it (except Fire Fish of course because I'm no masochist) and tried a bunch of sail configurations but didnt really like any.

The only thing it's good for is showing off to the ladies at the port and taking alot of cargo, but even then I'd rather stuck as much as I can in my Sanbuq which can drive pratically horizontally at 12knots and still not take in water.

[kara_buga]

Sanbuq is indeed my favorite. I tried brig but it was way too slow. If anyone who prefers brig can tell us their configuration I can give it a try again.

[jamespfp]

^^ Yep, the Sanbuq is my pick for the most sea-worthy of all the boats too. Super high freeboard, lovely length to beam ratio, and cuts through even the most pesky shallow water / high wind craziness without changing course one degree.

The Brig did not need to become less responsive, that's for darn sure. And the Brig isn't the only ship being affected by the water coming in over the side from the heeling; what's difficult to grasp is why sails that are too loose seem to be causing more heeling.... [edit] I mean, I could suppose that Too Much sail is too much, and that's the problem. But too much sail that is loose?

[Spyre9]

I don't know how well you guy sail or your technique but I have no issues with the Brig, I barely take on any water whatever the weather and if you know how you can get her to turn tight, if you use the sails, example if I'm turning closer to the wind, i.e towards it, then I take in the front sails allowing the wind to push her stern around, away from the wind, take in the aft sails and let the wind push her bow around.

She is more stable in heavier weather which I like and manage the heel by either taking in sails or adjusting them so they don't catch the full force of the wind. Some of this, for speed as well will be dictated to you by the sail configuration you go for.

Each ship also has different characteristics. With stock sails, the Sanbuq will be faster then the Brig the closer you sail to the wind but running before it, I doubt it. Hard to quantify unless you use mods to set the exact same sailing conditions and test it out.

Personally I love the Brig, I have no issues sailing her, or with her speed, I like the look of the Sanbuq and try to refit her as a Sloop or Schooner, she is a lil less stable and carries less cargo. The Junk... I dislike the Junk, aesthetically and how she handles.

Just for clarification I'm on day 638 and used the Brig for the majority of that, do I like the new rudder drag... no, not at all; turning through the wind is a complete pain now.

[jamespfp]

^^ I didn't have any trouble with Trim nor understanding the dynamics of sails in front of the main mast versus behind it. The issue is that "Correct" inputs are not getting correct responses. And moreover, if the choice presented to me is "Do the Right Thing and Drown, or do the Wrong Thing" I'm going to have to stubbornly refuse to do the Wrong Thing and pay the Alt+F4 Piper.

I could give the Brig the benefit of some doubt, perhaps it's not that model specifically but rather its situational. For example, it would be much harder to tack a ship if the Wind arbitrarily decided to come around at more or less the same moment in time that you initiate a tacking turn into it, causing the ship to Stall the same as if it had run out of speed.

[jamespfp]

RE: ".... Manage the Brig's Heeling by Taking In Sails..." -- That, at least, is the Right Thing.

[Spyre9]

That's how I manage the heel, or loosen the sheets, which you cant do on the squares. Never had an issue with it, I mean sometimes I'll trim the squares so they catch the wind at an angle. Dunno what to say bud

The Brig - and yes I know it's not a true Brig set up with only 2 masts, this is closer to a Barque, but the Brig Hull
https://imgur.com/a/GsNUL2D

[jamespfp]

^^ Loosening the sheets sometimes causes more water to come over the side. Taking the sails in completely is not the same thing.

[Spyre9]

Not had that issue but then I don't know your sail layout, the stock doesn't have flying jibs only the large one off the bowsprit, and the spanker is too large.

I have taken on water but it depends on the swell and where the wind is coming from, sometimes it's not the heel, just the swell, but when the swell is that high you typically get wet.

[jamespfp]

RE: Squares -- They can be loosened after a fashion. Trim them so that the angle is shallower than 45 degrees, usually in the direction which puts their booms perpendicular to the keel and more in line with the wind.

And as a matter of fact, the same is true for using the Rudder to load or unload Wind. Some turns should relieve the heeling and sailing close-hauled is a balancing act with this exact dynamic, where turning down-wind should be worse than turning into it. Emphasize the Should. What I observe happening in the game is that small corrective turns into the Wind to stop the heeling somehow result in the wind continuing to come around onto the Beam, on the windward side, which is either outright capriciousness or some really bad luck.

[jamespfp]

RE: Brig Rigging -- I changed the default Jib by increasing it to the 17 yard, and added a stay between the fore and main masts for the default jib, high enough to not interfere with the squares on the mainmast. I don't use both jibs when trying to tack, certainly not since the update.

And I also added a mizzen mast, then moved the gaff from the main mast back to there, which worked dandy in 0.21 particularly with turning smartly into the wind and then carrying on through, for tacking. Now, the ship stalls when the rudder goes hard over.

The smallest boats currently have the worst time of it, though, unless (I guess) they have some major ballast in them. The Dhow could probably go about as fast in reverse at the moment as it can forwards.

[Spyre9]

To be fair, a ship this size would have a small crew at least so you can adjust sail as you turn using it to your advantage, having to manage several sets of sails is a pain. I guess it just boils down to what you enjoy, I have no issues with the Brig, the OP said it sucks, that's their opinion, one I do not share.

Would I prefer the gunwale/gunnel not to have the cut outs, most definitely. Do I dislike the added drag on the rudder, for sure but its better then it was in the initial change in Beta, that was more like a handbrake. Does it detract enough from the enjoyment of sailing the Brig... nah, she looks good, sails pretty well and you can't go to sea and not expect to get wet every now and again.

[Thundercracker]

i love my brig. still rigged up like this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963861161

it's not the fastest, but i can keep forward movement in most winds, and i can keep full sails for that wind in most conditions.

all those sails do take a lot of minding, especially up near aestrin. i have a kind of cycle, though. catch a fish, check my heading, check that my sails are still properly trimmed. repeat.

and in the rare case the wind does come at me head-on, the squares can still push me back into an angle where i can mostly go the way i want to and still catch the wind. it is a little wonky, though, since the last patch.

most importantly, though, the brig holds a lot of cargo. both in volume and in weight. and you have to really pack it in their for it to affect anything, provided you're not stacking all the weight on one side or something.

these factors make it a money printing machine. it can do a full circuit of the major regions in a little less than a month, it holds a lot of cargo, and it's super stable in every condition the game throws at me.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Spyre9:

I don't know how well you guy sail or your technique but I have no issues with the Brig, I barely take on any water whatever the weather and if you know how you can get her to turn tight, if you use the sails, example if I'm turning closer to the wind, i.e towards it, then I take in the front sails allowing the wind to push her stern around, away from the wind, take in the aft sails and let the wind push her bow around.

We don't have "problems" with brig, just saying it's having some issues.
It's not like we can't sail it, just not as good.

Also your description seem to work better for a squre-rigged brig but I believe most people would remodel it into a schooner.

[pvt_Pyle]

skill issue, nothing more

[Thundercracker]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

We don't have "problems" with brig, just saying it's having some issues.
It's not like we can't sail it, just not as good.

Also your description seem to work better for a squre-rigged brig but I believe most people would remodel it into a schooner.

hey boris, since you know the terminology so much better than i, and also have a wealth of rigging types in your knowledge, what would you classify my monstrosity as the closest to being?