This game needs a lot more time in the oven.

[SpicyCrab]

Was very excited to try this because this one was definitely on my list but I hoipe it's not releasing for a long time because it feels really half baked. A dream game; Co op Hades but... Hades it isn't...

The movement and combat seems really unresponsive or awkward (can't quite put my finger on it) when compared with a game like Hades or Ravenswatch and just everything feels pretty unfinished and awkward. The enemies do not feel as visually clear or easy to read as in those other games and as a result the combat feels very awkward and unsatisfying.

Feedback on variouis elements is severely lacking. Like shooting the cannon with Rook there is something very stilted about the animation that makes it feel like it has no force. Most of the combat animations and hit feedback regarding enemies feel similarly bad. (Example; hitting enemies with Rooks melee attack on the cannon pushes enemies back with suck akward feedback that at first I thought "did I just push that enemy or was that a coincidence". There are many other examples.)

Rooms feel very short and unsatisfying, the 'theme' of a room and it's enemies are often barely apparent before it's already over. By contrast, Hades had strongly themed rooms with plenty of enemies so that you could get a feel for the room/challenge before it was over.

Many design elements feel copied from Hades but in a somewhat strange way that misses the point of the original mechanic; for example having me choose between two doors with the SAME REWARD but one has an elite and the other doesn't (and I can't see which god is in each room...) then when I win the room I get to choose between two different gods for the boon. Hades system of seeing two DIFFERENT rewards/gods being visible before choosing a door makes a lot more sense.

Another example, when upgrading an existing ability is the fact that i can choose which ability to upgrade instead of it being random. On paper that sounds really nice but repeatedly upgrading the same thing over and over is such a dominant strategy it means that i should just always try to upgrade my best thing when offered the choice; removing a risk/reward decision from the original design of Hades. Again, lots of other examples.

Team17 is an excellent team and i'm somewhat shocked at how unfinished and cobbled together this product feels. I really really hope they are planning on polishing pretty much everything about this SIGNIFICANTLY before release or it's going to flop which would be a shame.

[Etagloc]

itsn't it a given, that it is unfinished?. You can only play a demo,and you can't even buy an EA copy

[SpicyCrab]

@

Originally posted by Etagloc:

itsn't it a given, that it is unfinished?. You can only play a demo,and you can't even buy an EA copy

Yeah, hopefully they give it it's due because I do think it has potential. Not trying to hate at all I just really hope this demo is not indicative of the polish level of the final product.

[Firsken]

First mistake: Comparing a game to another game.

[Zekk]

Originally posted by Firsken:

First mistake: Comparing a game to another game.

Cmon now, its quite obvious that they've tried to copy the formula.

[Titouan Sechepine]

Comparing 2 games that belong in the same genre is completely valid, especially if one is clearly inspired by the other.
That feedback seems pretty valid to me, I also tried it, with a friend, and while we had some fun, the game indeed needs more time and polishing - which is alright, it's a demo after all.

In addition to the feedback above, I'd add:
- Enemies can't be hitsun, which seems to be an issue to me in such a game: you want your player to feel powerful enough to kill trashmobs, while being more careful around elites and bosses. Hades chose to add an armor mechanic where mobs can only be hitstun when it's removed, which seems better to me
- Enemies attacks lack clarity, you have red circles on the ground indicating where a projectile will go for example, but it's a dark red which tends to blend with the ground.
- Hitboxes don't feel right, if you know you avoided a projectile that came from above thanks to a dash and yet you still take the hit.. Not good
- Rooms in the second zone tend to take forever to do while some rooms in the first one are extremely quick to do
- In coop, a mob can look toward Player 1 and for some reason (range, pathing?) immediately attacks the Player 2

I really want that game to be good, so I hope that it won't release soon. And when asked about the similarities between both games, come on, be honest and don't serve us with stuff like "What separates SWORN is that it facilitates creativity and rewards you for trying different approaches. Your approach to combat is fully configurable" that I saw in another thread, that's so generic...

For now the only real appeal of that game over Hades 2 is the coop. If you want to convince people to buy both games there's work to do, so I hope that it will work out

[SpicyCrab]

I couldn't care less that the game is a Hades clone. Perhaps the Hades devs have a reason to be annoyed but I am not a Hades dev and they've stubbornly refused to add co-op so I think Sworn is rightfully taking advantage of a gap in the market.

Unfortunately, it feels very unpolished and unresponsive and that when they did make changes to the formula from Hades it seems to be for the worse almost universally.

I definitely would want to echo this sentiment from previous poster regarding hitstun on the enemies.

I think this is a big part of why the combat feels so unresponsive. I recommend that the devs here study the game feel and combat from Hades or Ravenswatch and figure out what exactly it is about those games that makes the combat feel so much more pleasing and responsive. Both games have a 'stagger' meter of sorts and that might be something to investigate as well.

I still think there are strong bones here and the game could be great but I will reiterate my statement that if the game releases in a similar state to this demo it is not going to get very far.

It's strange to see the general content in the game at such an advanced stage regarding characters, meta-progression, art etc... while the general polish level of the game feel is lagging so far behind.

[psynical]

what is it with people on Steam who don't understand wtf a demo is? Like, this isn't even in EA yet, so you're essentially playing an alpha tech demo. Of course "the general polish level of the game feel is lagging so far behind." IT'S A F'IN TECH DEMO.

[Titouan Sechepine]

"It's strange to see the general content in the game at such an advanced stage regarding characters, meta-progression, art etc... while the general polish level of the game feel is lagging so far behind."

"IT'S A F'IN TECH DEMO"

It's a demo indeed, not an Alpha. As the first dude said, there's already a good amount of content, meaning that there are huge chances that the core mechanics of the game won't move that much between now and the release.

Hence why it's appropriate to grant feedback about what feels right or not. Lots of demos tend to simply be the "prologue" of a game, and the release just the entire game, without changes to core mechanics.

So while I do hope that the devs will polish those mechanics, there are reasons to have doubts.

[Tremert]

I play with 2 friends coop (is awesome we are having so much fun) but dont know why, 2 player coop feels easier than 3 player coop, is just a feeling or a real thing?

[Xeirus]

Originally posted by Tremert:

I play with 2 friends coop (is awesome we are having so much fun) but dont know why, 2 player coop feels easier than 3 player coop, is just a feeling or a real thing?

It scales, single player is insanely easy if you've only done duo/trios

[Xeirus]

Originally posted by Etagloc:

itsn't it a given, that it is unfinished?. You can only play a demo,and you can't even buy an EA copy

I thought the demo was really fun, I dunno what these nerds are complaining about.