A lot of nerfs?

[Sharkinbear]

Howdy howdy devs. Great game so far but I have to ask why all the nerfs in the recent patch? IMO, maybe somethings overperforming in low rank but getting into higher difficulties is already a big struggle with the amount of corruption you have to deal with. It feels like we are being punished now.. If other builds were underperforming, wouldn't it have been better to buff the things that were underperforming. At this point, I'm not sure if I can to go to beyond difficulty three since I've cleared it. I hope that we can look to more tuning of Fae blessings and passive upgrades in the near future.

[Klownzilla]

Bad devs typically nerf the fun stuff. Which is a really awful design decision especially in a roguelite game like this.

[Cotton]

Originally posted by Sharkinbear:

Howdy howdy devs. Great game so far but I have to ask why all the nerfs in the recent patch? IMO, maybe somethings overperforming in low rank but getting into higher difficulties is already a big struggle with the amount of corruption you have to deal with. It feels like we are being punished now.. If other builds were underperforming, wouldn't it have been better to buff the things that were underperforming. At this point, I'm not sure if I can to go to beyond difficulty three since I've cleared it. I hope that we can look to more tuning of Fae blessings and passive upgrades in the near future.

they intentionally dont want many people to beat the higher difficulties, especially not so soon after EA release. in yesterdays AMA they mentioned that way too many ppl have already beaten dif 4 and 5 for their liking, so the nerfs are a response to that.
personally i agree with this mindset, it was too easy so far (even tho i havent gone past dif 4 myself yet) so i think these nerfs are mostly a good thing. the one thing is complain about is the spell recovery going from 5s to 6s, that one hurts.
in general i think too many ppl weirdly feel like they have to be able to beat the game at every difficulty and i dont get why. why can that not be reserved for only the best of the best? beating the game on squire and knight is plenty easy, that souls be enough for most ppl.

i do however agree that only nerfs isnt the right way, the worst weapons and blessings are still noticeably worse than the good things they just nerfed, they need buffs.

Originally posted by Klownzilla:

Bad devs typically nerf the fun stuff. Which is a really awful design decision especially in a roguelite game like this.

name checks out.

[Sharkinbear]

Originally posted by Cotton:

Originally posted by Sharkinbear:

Howdy howdy devs. Great game so far but I have to ask why all the nerfs in the recent patch? IMO, maybe somethings overperforming in low rank but getting into higher difficulties is already a big struggle with the amount of corruption you have to deal with. It feels like we are being punished now.. If other builds were underperforming, wouldn't it have been better to buff the things that were underperforming. At this point, I'm not sure if I can to go to beyond difficulty three since I've cleared it. I hope that we can look to more tuning of Fae blessings and passive upgrades in the near future.

they intentionally dont want many people to beat the higher difficulties, especially not so soon after EA release. in yesterdays AMA they mentioned that way too many ppl have already beaten dif 4 and 5 for their liking, so the nerfs are a response to that.
personally i agree with this mindset, it was too easy so far (even tho i havent gone past dif 4 myself yet) so i think these nerfs are mostly a good thing. the one thing is complain about is the spell recovery going from 5s to 6s, that one hurts.
in general i think too many ppl weirdly feel like they have to be able to beat the game at every difficulty and i dont get why. why can that not be reserved for only the best of the best? beating the game on squire and knight is plenty easy, that souls be enough for most ppl.

i do however agree that only nerfs isnt the right way, the worst weapons and blessings are still noticeably worse than the good things they just nerfed, they need buffs.

Originally posted by Klownzilla:

Bad devs typically nerf the fun stuff. Which is a really awful design decision especially in a roguelite game like this.

name checks out.

I mean I could see where they are coming from but it just doesn't track for me. At only completing 3rd difficulty, the achievement says that only 6.5% of people have even made it that far. If you don't want people to "complete" the game or something along those lines, then just don't make what you don't want played available. And rebalance what isn't working for builds. Having 25ish hours into the game, I feel like now I have no reason to continue trying for harder content because the devs don't want me to make it that far. That's basically artificial inflation for the sake of keeping their game unbeatable for some who aren't as good as the game. They don't really seem to respond on here but if they read the comments I hope that they see that nerfing something that is fun and works is not the way to get people to play your game or push content. It may even scare off those who are considering purchasing the game down the line until adjustments are made.

[dorumon21]

I actually had the same thought, lots of nerfs, almost no buffs really while the underperforming weapons and spells remains as they are. Its never a good idea to nerf so much and give almost nothing back.

They should really be looking at what needs fine tuning first so they can least give back or else people will just play this for a bit and the game will be a after thought even after its finished just because there were more nerfs than actual fun.

To be fair though, some players are at fault too, saying something is stupid OP when it may not be, causing it to get nerfed in the first place when it didn't need it.

[RaivoSoul]

Originally posted by Cotton:

Originally posted by Klownzilla:

Bad devs typically nerf the fun stuff. Which is a really awful design decision especially in a roguelite game like this.

name checks out.

I think we can agree that this game is basically Hades in co-op. And all I can tell you after more than 200h in both hades 1 and 2 and like uncountable hundreds of hours in all the roguelike productions - the sole only purpose of playing those games is having fun. Unimaginable to you?

1. Nerfing without buffing stuff that does not work is not fun, it discourage from playing. Devs have many, many more ways to increase difficulty in general and buff under-performing combinations.
2. Nerfing fun builds just for the sake of nerfing is not fun.
3. Creating artificial inflation - as previous user mentioned - is not a fun experience.

We don't really have to go that deep - just look at helldivers 2 history and how the game almost died because of all the nerfs and the game should be harder mindset of the devs.

[Tim]

Nerfs can make it more fun for people like me that enjoy those "Hmm..." moments when selecting bonuses. Blessings/Swords in the Stone that are too good make decision-making less interesting. There's fun in just re-rolling for The One Thing You Already Know is Great, but it's a relatively shallow kinda fun.

[Sch]

Originally posted by Tim:

Nerfs can make it more fun for people like me that enjoy those "Hmm..." moments when selecting bonuses. Blessings/Swords in the Stone that are too good make decision-making less interesting. There's fun in just re-rolling for The One Thing You Already Know is Great, but it's a relatively shallow kinda fun.

Absolutely agree.

[freeque]

Originally posted by RaivoSoul:

Originally posted by Cotton:

name checks out.

I think we can agree that this game is basically Hades in co-op. And all I can tell you after more than 200h in both hades 1 and 2 and like uncountable hundreds of hours in all the roguelike productions - the sole only purpose of playing those games is having fun. Unimaginable to you?

1. Nerfing without buffing stuff that does not work is not fun, it discourage from playing. Devs have many, many more ways to increase difficulty in general and buff under-performing combinations.
2. Nerfing fun builds just for the sake of nerfing is not fun.
3. Creating artificial inflation - as previous user mentioned - is not a fun experience.

We don't really have to go that deep - just look at helldivers 2 history and how the game almost died because of all the nerfs and the game should be harder mindset of the devs.

Absolutely agree.

[RaivoSoul]

Originally posted by Tim:

Nerfs can make it more fun for people like me that enjoy those "Hmm..." moments when selecting bonuses. Blessings/Swords in the Stone that are too good make decision-making less interesting. There's fun in just re-rolling for The One Thing You Already Know is Great, but it's a relatively shallow kinda fun.

But buffing instead of nerfing does not make it less fur for you, because you would still have the same "Hmm..." moment because of the new shiny buff that you see in the other option, right?

[Sch]

Originally posted by RaivoSoul:

Originally posted by Tim:

Nerfs can make it more fun for people like me that enjoy those "Hmm..." moments when selecting bonuses. Blessings/Swords in the Stone that are too good make decision-making less interesting. There's fun in just re-rolling for The One Thing You Already Know is Great, but it's a relatively shallow kinda fun.

But buffing instead of nerfing does not make it less fur for you, because you would still have the same "Hmm..." moment because of the new shiny buff that you see in the other option, right?

Choosing skills is not so interesting if the game is too simple. Difficulties below Duke don't require you to think at all when choosing blessings. You know that the game will be completed because there will be no boss room with mushrooms + meteors or other deadly combinations. If constantly make the game easier, then all the difficulties will become so.

[Sharkinbear]

Originally posted by Sch:

Originally posted by RaivoSoul:

But buffing instead of nerfing does not make it less fur for you, because you would still have the same "Hmm..." moment because of the new shiny buff that you see in the other option, right?

Choosing skills is not so interesting if the game is too simple. Difficulties below Duke don't require you to think at all when choosing blessings. You know that the game will be completed because there will be no boss room with mushrooms + meteors or other deadly combinations. If constantly make the game easier, then all the difficulties will become so.

But the game isn't being made easier by making more things viable. It's giving you more options instead of making you think of one broken build that is going to get you to the end. Having balanced build variety that is actually strong is one thing. Having to deal with all of the elements coming out at you through corruption is another thing all together. The game would still be hard diff. 3 and up.

[Sch]

Originally posted by Sharkinbear:

Originally posted by Sch:

Choosing skills is not so interesting if the game is too simple. Difficulties below Duke don't require you to think at all when choosing blessings. You know that the game will be completed because there will be no boss room with mushrooms + meteors or other deadly combinations. If constantly make the game easier, then all the difficulties will become so.

But the game isn't being made easier by making more things viable. It's giving you more options instead of making you think of one broken build that is going to get you to the end. Having balanced build variety that is actually strong is one thing. Having to deal with all of the elements coming out at you through corruption is another thing all together. The game would still be hard diff. 3 and up.

Blessing buff will make it easier. So nerfing overpowered blessings is the right decision. Now only difficulty 5 causes problems. If you increase the blessings, then all the difficulties will be too simple and it will just be boring to play.

[Sharkinbear]

Originally posted by Sch:

Originally posted by Sharkinbear:

But the game isn't being made easier by making more things viable. It's giving you more options instead of making you think of one broken build that is going to get you to the end. Having balanced build variety that is actually strong is one thing. Having to deal with all of the elements coming out at you through corruption is another thing all together. The game would still be hard diff. 3 and up.

Blessing buff will make it easier. So nerfing overpowered blessings is the right decision. Now only difficulty 5 causes problems. If you increase the blessings, then all the difficulties will be too simple and it will just be boring to play.

What blessing buff? So far I haven't seen anything for blessings other than nerfs and fixes. Anything beyond diff 2 is still a pain. I'm able to do 4 now but even survivability passives like health regen were nerfed.

[Avoid Spirit]

I would be fine with any number of nerfs if the later difficulties (especially sovereign) didn't feel so cheap - it all comes down to the amount of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on your screen and most deaths feeling like bad luck instead of actual mistakes.

[GazimoEnthra]

Nerfs are a HUGE red flag that the devs don't have the slightest clue what they are doing. Doing nerfs in a rogue like is as sloppy as it gets.