Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
7 
Report this post
Astrea is my game of the year 2023.
Now it may not be yours, but a few things I can share from my perspective about Astrea are . . .
1. Learning takes longer
Compared to many slay-a-likes, each Oracle in Astrea is typically a lot more complex to learn, with many die appearing downright unhelpful initially. It perhaps does not help that the first Oracle - Moonie - is the one who benefits most from playing around with the thing that harms you (Corruption) making her a high risk / high reward prospect.
2. Battles take *much* longer
There are far fewer battles total, and less enemy variety, but as you progress through the Anomaly levels each individual battle becomes more and more of an intricate dance through an array of various effects and buffs and debuffs and triggers and counters. I have seen Astrea described as a Slay the Spire for mathematics nobel prize winners, and when you reach the upper Anomaly and Astrea levels, you *can* track and predict, but gosh dang, it becomes hard.
3. Black Hole Blessings are awesome
For my first 5-10 plays, I shied away from the Black Hole Blessings. The malus seemed horrible and the bonus small or something I did not fully understand. With experience, I will also choose a Black Hole blessing. The power of +1 die per turn, when you can play all your die (no energy limit) is very high.
Some Black Hole blessing maluses can be neutral, or even helpful. For example, Cellarius wants / needs to self-harm a lot in order to use and reuse his virtues many times. Get the Black Hole blessing that applies a Thorn (reflect 1 damage) to an enemy each fight, and you have a way to help re-enable multiple virtue uses per turn.
4. Forge is kinda overpowered
The trick is to get one really strong die, add a couple 200 cost strong faces to it, then duplicate it several times. Now you have three incredibly strong die in your deck.
5. Bots are for specials
Unless playing as Hevallius, in which case bots are just all round awesome, bots are often best used for their special. For example, the Bot that has die faces that allow you to choose the die face of another die is a battle winner. It can rid you of hex die, switch one of your die to a key face (like invulnerable) or sometimes event better, change an enemy die from something that would kill you into something that will not.
Hope you grow to love it!
This shows 5 die. This started out as one die with 2 x Invulnerable Faces and 4 corruption faces. Over the run, I used Forge to add extra die-draw and relief faces, and managed to duplicate it 4 times (twice via Forge, twice via copy nodes or random events)
As a result, nearly half of this late game deck has invulnerable faces, and die draw, making it an incredibly lean and safe deck. It should manage 10/6 difficulty (I am still playing with it)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3122349388
Thanks for the lengthy write up and example!
Your write up has good points. I agree on the blackhole blessings have some synergy with some oracles. I'm not sold all are powerful. Also not sold extra die is always great - depends on if you can handle them. Getting stuck with more corrupt die than you can re-roll/discard/convert/have the tools to deal with is not a good position. So unlike most card games where draw is nearly always a huge plus - this game its situational. Seeing as how a ton of the BHB are +1 die/with punishment - it feels extremely situational. I take them at times. I tend to feel the other blessings are better as they are consistent and always beneficial , but very marginal.
Also, I don't mind the long battles, that's not bad for me. Also, bots are for specials, but again, in your example, I like the bot that gives me the die that lets me change to a specific face. But a 4health bot with a 1 in 6 chance to land it's "best" die is really situational and can't be relied on. It's nice when it happens but you can't use it as a part of your build unless you want massive risk. Plus I'm not spending die resources on protecting the bot over me unless I'm flush with protection die - so it dies. Situational, not worth investing 150, 200, 250 in upgrades - ever imho.
Although I didn't mention it - I did understand how duplicating one powerful die would be awesome as you also showed. However, I wasn't really sold on that being viable as a reliable engine building idea - and still am not.
My issue with the "build one powerful die and copy a bunch" is I don't see how that supports builds with combo mechanics all that well. I do see how it could propel you to a win, but just as a "YOLO" die not related to the build mechanics of the oracle. Which is fine - but I'm trying to find how to consistently manage build opportunities. Not every run can get a good build, but trying and succeeding should be rewarding. Making an uber/YOLO die is fun too, just different.
I think your example actually proved that as you took incorruptible and filled it with die draw/discard and 1 DOT. The power in that die you duplicated was you'd most likely land a incorruptible - and just needed 1 or more DOTs to land. You could draw a bunch more die that could do nothing or just discard or just draw more to get to one of these uber/YOLO die again. The point simply being to land these YOLO die on a DOT after getting 1 incorruptible and rinse/repeat until you win.
Strong? Yes. Based on a combo build? Seems not to be. It simply ignores all other mechanics and yolos by itself. You don't even need your other 8 die. "Incorruptible, DOTs, repeat, slow win". Where's the class combo/mechanics in that? If anything, this example makes me feel more like the game is 'off' even more than I originally felt.
Sothis (your example) has all these different effects and your die example you can basically ignore every mechanic they have and just spam a DOT. The die example you gave could be copy/pasted into any oracle in the game since it's a neutral die and just replace the DOT with one damaging spell from that class and it just still wins.
Do you have an example of how a great build/combo is created instead of just a strong solo/yolo/neutral die that would work on every oracle class?
Mostly draw/draw risky & incorruptible, but some others like 10 light shield/4 aoe shield work fine as bases that will keep you alive if played >2 per turn.
That being said, some oracles do have builds that don't revolve around that build path.
> Hevelius has a bunch of wacky stuff with copy sentinels copying, rearming and potentially going on a infinite grind on their own. His arguably strongest die (oscillation) is also not something you want to copy.
> Shark boi can stack his anchor and do some crazy wonders with copycat dice.
> Orion builds don't really need duplicates. His combo pieces are quite specific, and his draw is plentiful and guaranteed, provided you can shuffle the orbs in the correct positions.
> Moonie can do some really wacky stuff with virtues, self-fixing the dice, juggling more draws and utilizing doom as offensive weapon.
That's from the top of my head, and yes, they would still benefit from having a good forged and duplicated die, but its not a centerpiece of their pattern, and instead an enabler.
Aha, yes, you are spot on! The example I gave is just as you describe, it shows the power of forge but only as a means of making multiple uber die which function just fine standalone, without contributing to or depending on any synergy.
However, this snip of a deck from my current run (still working!) is one where I very purposefully set out to make a deck based on just two things:
1. Sothis Relief (damage over time following end of turn)
2. Anything that would prevent Sothis from losing Hearts (and I got invulnerable)
I did this deliberately to see if a full relief build could work, and also to greatly simplify a 10/6 run with Sothis. Since Relief is not direct damage, it does not trigger the enemy responses to direct damage.
However, in prior 10/6 runs with Hevallius and Cellarius, I did use Forge to instead assist with synergies / combinations, thereby choosing synergy enhancing faces and duplicating 3 die twice rather than one die 5-6 times.
Next time I do such again, I endevour to remember to return here! :-)
Just finished the demo, and unsure if i wanna spend the money on the game.
It's a real help reading stuff like this, as it shows there is more strategy to the game than just rolling dice.
But that not why i'm writing this. I just wanted to commend you for this discussion thread. It's so refreshing to see a steam dicussion between people with propper etiquette, some in depth and well thought out comments and most of all people listening to each other.
Thank you for renewing my belief in gamers :)
To update : I think I was playing the game slightly "wrong" or at least sub optimal for how it was designed.
I was / am a fan of Slay the Spire / Monster train and other similar games. I went in trying to build my 'deck' by selecting die that synergized - but even with weeding / deleting dice I found my builds subpar.
Lyk's post showed me a bit that you can still work with good dice that have synergy but the real power is finding a great dice and duplicating it (either a boss dice , a constructed one, etc).
My strategy changed to simply hoarding money and trinkets for the first 2 levels and not accepting any dice on the first 2 boards unless they were ++ and could be a core of a build. I trim a dice here and there if free and if I can hit a forge since it's cheap on lvls 1-2 and I just usually delete at least 1 to 3 of the starter dice. Once you beat two bosses or come across some great event - you'll find some free Epic die that are build defining. From the 3rd level on I start duplicating and modifying to get my core set. If I die before then, well then my run wasn't meant to be. But if i didn't die , have 1000+ money , can craft / duplicate / buy epic die to synergize with my build easily.
Playing this way I unlocked all 5 pieces of the gate and beat the final boss with one of the oracles. I'll probably try to win with the other 4 then maybe if I'm still into it - start to increase the corruption levels, but have already gotten my money worth.
You won't get through with starting deck + couple unmodded risky dice.
1) I agree
2) Kinda agree
3) Kinda agree the economy of shards feels a bit underwhelming. Disagree on bot upgrades being weak.
4) Strongly disagree, even if i'd like to be able to modify dice more it's extremely strong already.
I can empathize with how you feel about it, but to me it's just some mostly minor, inconsequential gripes and inconveniences in an overall great package.
Think about it. Why use so much money on changing ONE face of a die that you might never see for the rest of your run? I just finished a Celery run that had several heart loss dice faces and I only ever saw them maybe three times over the run despite getting them in the first act.
Sentinels are far FAR better for your investment, no matter WHO you are playing as. They are essentially 2 more dice draws per turn, but you also know for sure which dice they are going to be. And on top of that, they also come with bonus effects! I might buy a relic or an Epic Dice if I have the money (But man, 300 is a steep price) but I almost never go out of my way to change dice faces.
Also, the fact that you get offered a Sentinel after a boss fight that will be 1 level higher than your lowest level Sentinel means you can get MASSIVE value returns for switching up, an upgrade can cost 150-350 and you get a measly 50 for skipping one. If you don't like one of your current Sentinels, why would you EVER skip up on trading for an upgraded one when you're getting such a big value bonus from it?
You people that are dismissing Sentinels are just nuts. This is a game where you not only have to draw specific dice, but also roll specific sides for the right effects. To me, investing in consistency is key.
Because that was my first impression too...
Then, oh boy did max difficulty change my mind quickly
I feel like you either build around them or you don't. When you do they are decent, and i'm having decent success even at 10/6 so far, but they do die quite easily a lot of the time.
It's kinda tricky because the best upgrades are usually level 4 or 5, but the shard price rarely justifies it, so my sentinels tend to be around level 2~3, sometimes 4, most games.
If anything i'd rather level up one good sentinel than spread out across two though.
Obviously sentinel balance is a completely different thing on Hevelius, where quite a few builds allow you to benefit a lot from keeping sentinels alive and leveling them as much as possible. Being able to increase their max health can be huge for builds that require keeping them alive and getting the best out of them.
Getting an early one might be the best move
so is fishing for the right one...
but heavy investment in them? i don`t really see it being the optimal choice that often
What does an early sentinel-heavy build look like?
Like I said. You get two Sentinels early and now you have two more dice to use every turn on the early floors. It's consistency. They also help give you ways to make up for your weaknesses. If you have a lot of risky dice then the Sentinel that comes with a Reroll die can be a godsend. I'm not really sure what the other guy meant by them dying fast though. Most enemies attack your Oracle or themselves and the ones that have an AOE attack are still manageable with rerolls, lightshields, etc.
Let me try to explain something again. Increasing the dice you roll each turn is a huge benefit in the game, such that it usually comes attached with a big investment cost or a downside of some kind. A Sentinel is an extra dice roll where you always know what the dice is and it comes with another body to sometimes absorb hits, extra benefits like an auto turret or an AOE purification, etc. They help give you consistency so you can focus more on your build.