Constructive criticism and maybe a solution

[Σnvy]

It was a really a lowblow from Kira to gaslighting all who are opposed to pronous to "grow up, times are changing old man". I understand that the people and the place he lives everyone uses different pronouns and it's growing in use, but that is not happening at the same rate or at all around the world. This was the same thing that happened to Saints Row reboot twitter did, and that didn't end well for the publicity.

But I have a solution that would please everyone:
Actually implement pronouns and make them optional (disable), that would please who don't like them (who think's it was in i'll intent), who roleplay and who is a self-insert.

I have talked to my friend and all of them had different opinions, and I think that would "fix" all this commotion because Kira wanted to make a bunch of people mad. Outside of my friends group I have seen some people talking a bunch of ♥♥♥♥ and saying they will keep an eye for games with transgender developers because of this.

I brought the game for myself and two of my friends because I saw the review from Iron Pineapple and I liked,
I sincerely thinks the game is great (aside from some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ secrets) and the music really puts you in the ambient. I really think this game would be in the top 5% most positive games on steam, but this scandal broke the community in half.

Hope this makes everyone thinks this as an band-aid to join us all again and not a cesspool of which side are you on and who's wrong.

Please don't try to twist my message, I just want the best for all.

[Unoriginal Umbrella]

I was thinking the same thing. Where you can add an option to have pronouns in the character creator or not. I agree it is a band-aid, but it's probably the only solution I can feasibly think of that would please everyone.

[emo princess]

kira's pronouns are they/them

the "band-aid" fix you propose is asking transgender people to hide themselves (and really, by extension, it's saying that it's okay to ask 'others' to make themselves small)

[Σnvy]

Originally posted by ⇆◁ ▶ ▷↻:

have fun coping as you get older

I'm actually against the change and I'm not trans, you just assumed I was by yourself. I really don't like other pronouns beside he/her, but I actually try to stay neutral as much as possible, but after discussing and reading the opinion of both sides this would be the best solution.

But I guess you had nothing to add, and the only way to cope was to insult someone without knowing who they are.

[Herb]

Originally posted by Σnvy:

It was a really a lowblow from Kira to gaslighting all who are opposed to pronous to "grow up, times are changing old man".

When you get upset at literal words on the screen you can bypass in 3 seconds and never seen them again maybe that growing up part rings true. So much upset that you become hostile towards the sole developer of a game, game which is art and a platform of self-expression.

Originally posted by Σnvy:

but that is not happening at the same rate or at all around the world.

And to further put a stop on any change "we" demand that such features may not be implemented in games because hurt feelings. This is the same crowd who would be laughing at 'snowflakes' over getting their feelings hurt by a female character having too big breasts. Sides of the same coin and all that.

Originally posted by Σnvy:

I really don't like other pronouns beside he/her,

How very anglocentric of you. Also, how hilarious since this would then mean you'd avoid literally all other pronouns that have existed within English (including "dreaded" they) for aeons. People don't seem to understand how languages work and vehemently try and fight against it while of course embracing Internet slang into it without question.

I live in a country where the language has a third person gender neutral pronoun and I figure people would literally explode at the absolute state of wokeness of it.

Originally posted by Σnvy:

really think this game would be in the top 5% most positive games on steam, but this scandal broke the community in half.

No, no it wouldn't. Hell. The reviews are even sitting at like 80+% positive recent. That's how "half" the community was split.

This concern trolling is laughable.

[Σnvy]

Originally posted by Herb:

Originally posted by Σnvy:

It was a really a lowblow from Kira to gaslighting all who are opposed to pronous to "grow up, times are changing old man".

When you get upset at literal words on the screen you can bypass in 3 seconds and never seen them again maybe that growing up part rings true. So much upset that you become hostile towards the sole developer of a game, game which is art and a platform of self-expression.

Originally posted by Σnvy:

but that is not happening at the same rate or at all around the world.

And to further put a stop on any change "we" demand that such features may not be implemented in games because hurt feelings. This is the same crowd who would be laughing at 'snowflakes' over getting their feelings hurt by a female character having too big breasts. Sides of the same coin and all that.

Originally posted by Σnvy:

I really don't like other pronouns beside he/her,

How very anglocentric of you. Also, how hilarious since this would then mean you'd avoid literally all other pronouns that have existed within English (including "dreaded" they) for aeons. People don't seem to understand how languages work and vehemently try and fight against it while of course embracing Internet slang into it without question.

I live in a country where the language has a third person gender neutral pronoun and I figure people would literally explode at the absolute state of wokeness of it.

Originally posted by Σnvy:

really think this game would be in the top 5% most positive games on steam, but this scandal broke the community in half.

No, no it wouldn't. Hell. The reviews are even sitting at like 80+% positive recent. That's how "half" the community was split.

This concern trolling is laughable.

About the neutral pronouns, I'm esl so my main language is gendered and has no correct way to sound less weird, and they/them sound like a plural word. If Kira prefers she/her I would call him so (and edit my posts).

Most of the reviews are from before the pronouns update, i don't like neo-pronouns but I support the inclusion because it benefits the majority in may ways.

The last paragraph of my post was exactly about this. This is why this forum is exactly as it is, you have to choose a side and call the other. For some people it's impossible to agree to disagree and have something to benefit all.

You can call me troll/racist/transphobe/bigot/woke or wathever and still support/respect the opinion of both sides and still wants the inclusion of a working pronoum system and not a destructive adition that has no purpose.

[Maximus Autismus]

A feature that does nothing adds nothing and is nothing.
A waste of time really. They dont adress you ingame with these pronouns.
A worthless feature.
In the end this is also an opinion.

[Chunky Beau]

How would disabling pronouns be any different from just selecting your pronouns? It still is just people upset that they're in the game, regardless of everything else. I think it's just a silly thing to be upset with at all

[Maximus Autismus]

Originally posted by Big Beau:

How would disabling pronouns be any different from just selecting your pronouns? It still is just people upset that they're in the game, regardless of everything else. I think it's just a silly thing to be upset with at all

Im upset at the poor implementation of the feature.
Why do they not use these pronouns on my character when im talking to the characters. Its like they hate the pronoun im using and it feels bad.

[Herb]

Originally posted by Σnvy:

About the neutral pronouns, I'm esl so my main language is gendered and has no correct way to sound less weird, and they/them sound like a plural word. If Kira prefers she/her I would call him so (and edit my posts).

Most of the reviews are from before the pronouns update, i don't like neo-pronouns but I support the inclusion because it benefits the majority in may ways.

The last paragraph of my post was exactly about this. This is why this forum is exactly as it is, you have to choose a side and call the other. For some people it's impossible to agree to disagree and have something to benefit all.

You can call me troll/racist/transphobe/bigot/woke or wathever and still support/respect the opinion of both sides and still wants the inclusion of a working pronoum system and not a destructive adition that has no purpose.

Kira is they/them so why not respect that? Once you start using they as a neutral term it really comes off on its own. Languages morph, words change, get added, get new connotations etc. It's not a big deal. If we are ready to accept random internet slang or terms like dab then it shouldn't be a big deal.

The "respect both sides" has no merit in this instance. It's literally just words that certain people who'd be upset about snowflakes of the opposite side of the coin are now demanding to be removed (which they can if they want to). There's no one who is hurt here.

!This is not a morally grey situation! It's literally just a fantasy option in a fantasy game where you create a character that is not of your self-insert (necessarily). It's like telling someone they can't choose to be an Elf because they're not an Elf irl and as such Elves cannot exist as options in videogames. Or hell, just that Elves don't exist in real life so they shouldn't in fiction either.

We quite literally have people who demand "no politics in videogames" in unironic manner failing to comprehend that all video games are political in nature. What they really want is that no game they're interested in is allowed to burst their bubble even if it was an art piece of a sole developer. Self-censorship in this manner is terrible.

[Spectral_Orion]

This whole topic is a waste of time and this "fix" you propose will do nothing productive. It's a minor feature that has no real effect on the game, and people blew it out of proportion making it out to be a bigger issue than it really is. Giving an option to remove the feature has 0 purpose.

There are people on the Internet who literally act like their family was murdered whenever they see pronoun options in anything. It's pure entitlement, nothing more. If that's how they conduct themselves in real life too, I want nothing to do with those manchildren.

Perhaps you should take Kira's advice and grow up. A solution like this isn't as helpful as you think it is.

[Maximus Autismus]

Originally posted by Spectral_Orion:

This whole topic is a waste of time and this "fix" you propose will do nothing productive. It's a minor feature that has no real effect on the game, and people blew it out of proportion making it out to be a bigger issue than it really is. Giving an option to remove the feature has 0 purpose.

There are people on the Internet who literally act like their family was murdered whenever they see pronoun options in anything. It's pure entitlement, nothing more. If that's how they conduct themselves in real life too, I want nothing to do with those manchildren.

Perhaps you should take Kira's advice and grow up. A solution like this isn't as helpful as you think it is.

Options are great when a feature is incomplete.

[Σnvy]

Originally posted by Herb:

Originally posted by Σnvy:

About the neutral pronouns, I'm esl so my main language is gendered and has no correct way to sound less weird, and they/them sound like a plural word. If Kira prefers she/her I would call him so (and edit my posts).

Most of the reviews are from before the pronouns update, i don't like neo-pronouns but I support the inclusion because it benefits the majority in may ways.

The last paragraph of my post was exactly about this. This is why this forum is exactly as it is, you have to choose a side and call the other. For some people it's impossible to agree to disagree and have something to benefit all.

You can call me troll/racist/transphobe/bigot/woke or wathever and still support/respect the opinion of both sides and still wants the inclusion of a working pronoum system and not a destructive adition that has no purpose.

Kira is they/them so why not respect that? Once you start using they as a neutral term it really comes off on its own. Languages morph, words change, get added, get new connotations etc. It's not a big deal. If we are ready to accept random internet slang or terms like dab then it shouldn't be a big deal.

The "respect both sides" has no merit in this instance. It's literally just words that certain people who'd be upset about snowflakes of the opposite side of the coin are now demanding to be removed (which they can if they want to). There's no one who is hurt here.

!This is not a morally grey situation! It's literally just a fantasy option in a fantasy game where you create a character that is not of your self-insert (necessarily). It's like telling someone they can't choose to be an Elf because they're not an Elf irl and as such Elves cannot exist as options in videogames. Or hell, just that Elves don't exist in real life so they shouldn't in fiction either.

We quite literally have people who demand "no politics in videogames" in unironic manner failing to comprehend that all video games are political in nature. What they really want is that no game they're interested in is allowed to burst their bubble even if it was an art piece of a sole developer. Self-censorship in this manner is terrible.

You keep moving the goal post.

You keep talking about "words make snowflake mad" but still disagrees with me that have the same objective as you, but in a different way. I don't have to think the same as you, live the same as you. I want all this to have a meaning, but clearly you don't. You are not in either side or even in the middle, you are just a troll.

[Faerieon]

Originally posted by Σnvy:

But I have a solution that would please everyone:
Actually implement pronouns and make them optional (disable), that would please who don't like them (who think's it was in i'll intent), who roleplay and who is a self-insert.

Just because the idea of people having pronouns different than the ones they were assigned at birth is weirdly scary and offensive to some people, doesn't mean that those of us who do have different pronouns should have to be hidden away. Let's take this logic and apply it to a different context and pretend that video games were around in the 1950-60s and the issue is that a game allowed someone to make a black character. Well, your band-aid fix would mean that the developer would have to make the creation of a black character hidden away in the options menu just because racists didn't even want to acknowledge the possibility of making a black character.

Though to be fair, there are still plenty of racists who hate the idea of a black character in their games, so perhaps we should just acknowledge that there are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ people out there and we shouldn't cater to them at all. Genderqueer people exist, and to suggest that forcing us into the options menu is a fix is the same as suggesting we don't deserve to be seen and respected.

I can tell that you mean well with your post, but unfortunately with issues like this, you can't support both sides when one side's mission is the erasure of the other one.

[Σnvy]

Originally posted by Faerieon:

Originally posted by Σnvy:

But I have a solution that would please everyone:
Actually implement pronouns and make them optional (disable), that would please who don't like them (who think's it was in i'll intent), who roleplay and who is a self-insert.

Just because the idea of people having pronouns different than the ones they were assigned at birth is weirdly scary and offensive to some people, doesn't mean that those of us who do have different pronouns should have to be hidden away. Let's take this logic and apply it to a different context and pretend that video games were around in the 1950-60s and the issue is that a game allowed someone to make a black character. Well, your band-aid fix would mean that the developer would have to make the creation of a black character hidden away in the options menu just because racists didn't even want to acknowledge the possibility of making a black character.

Though to be fair, there are still plenty of racists who hate the idea of a black character in their games, so perhaps we should just acknowledge that there are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ people out there and we shouldn't cater to them at all. Genderqueer people exist, and to suggest that forcing us into the options menu is a fix is the same as suggesting we don't deserve to be seen and respected.

I can tell that you mean well with your post, but unfortunately with issues like this, you can't support both sides when one side's mission is the erasure of the other one.

so... no pronouns? I'm confused

The band-aid if for the community (to heal itself), not for the solution.

Removing would make Kira and half the community mad stomping their feet and calling the other half transphobe and bigot, adding would do the same but with actual bad since you can edit, like naming you character butt in a rpg but in a bad way (you know what I mean).

So adding and "removing" is the best solution.

[Nicemice]

Originally posted by Σnvy:

Originally posted by Faerieon:

Just because the idea of people having pronouns different than the ones they were assigned at birth is weirdly scary and offensive to some people, doesn't mean that those of us who do have different pronouns should have to be hidden away. Let's take this logic and apply it to a different context and pretend that video games were around in the 1950-60s and the issue is that a game allowed someone to make a black character. Well, your band-aid fix would mean that the developer would have to make the creation of a black character hidden away in the options menu just because racists didn't even want to acknowledge the possibility of making a black character.

Though to be fair, there are still plenty of racists who hate the idea of a black character in their games, so perhaps we should just acknowledge that there are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ people out there and we shouldn't cater to them at all. Genderqueer people exist, and to suggest that forcing us into the options menu is a fix is the same as suggesting we don't deserve to be seen and respected.

I can tell that you mean well with your post, but unfortunately with issues like this, you can't support both sides when one side's mission is the erasure of the other one.

so... no pronouns? I'm confused :lunar2020thinkingtiger:

The band-aid if for the community (to heal itself), not for the solution.

Removing would make Kira and half the community mad stomping their feet and calling the other half transphobe and bigot, adding would do the same but with actual bad since you can edit, like naming you character butt in a rpg but in a bad way (you know what I mean).

So adding and "removing" is the best solution.

Improve your reading comprehension. Stop using the word "half" if you don't know what it means, because you deeeeeeefinetely don't represent "half" the player base.