Don't let Sajam fool you Botan is cheep

[Club Soda]

Aki Rose is broken and cheap but so is Botan. don't be duped.

[Club Soda]

Enjoying the game overall, think I'll learn some combos next

[HornyPastryPuffer]

botan is a honest character, just hold down back, you could try making an argument that her poi's do a lot of chip dmg, but then half of the cast can just go through them for the hit, so i really dont understand why so many people leave my room after 1 game Sadge

[NeloDante]

Originally posted by HornyPastryPuffer:

botan is a honest character, just hold down back, you could try making an argument that her poi's do a lot of chip dmg, but then half of the cast can just go through them for the hit, so i really dont understand why so many people leave my room after 1 game Sadge

Botan? Honest? Lol. Her real potential is not from zoning, but from her stagger pressure and oki - the zoning is just a bonus. Second best character in the game hands down.

[pseudo]

sajam says controversial ♥♥♥♥ for views and downplays a lotta stuff in general

Originally posted by NeloDante:

Botan? Honest? Lol. Her real potential is not from zoning, but from her stagger pressure and oki - the zoning is just a bonus. Second best character in the game hands down.

I think if you reread their post as if they were joking, it makes more sense. He's clearly not serious.

[chadass18]

just plz fix the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ AKI so i can start playing again
..gonna dc everytime i see the character no lie

[Valy]

Originally posted by HornyPastryPuffer:

botan is a honest character, just hold down back, you could try making an argument that her poi's do a lot of chip dmg, but then half of the cast can just go through them for the hit, so i really dont understand why so many people leave my room after 1 game Sadge

shes a rushdown zoner, shes mad cheap

[Valy]

Originally posted by pseudo:

sajam says controversial ♥♥♥♥ for views and downplays a lotta stuff in general

Originally posted by NeloDante:

Botan? Honest? Lol. Her real potential is not from zoning, but from her stagger pressure and oki - the zoning is just a bonus. Second best character in the game hands down.

I think if you reread their post as if they were joking, it makes more sense. He's clearly not serious.

my brutha in christ, Sajam is the opposite of a controversial-takes maker

[Nohead]

Originally posted by HornyPastryPuffer:

botan is a honest character, just hold down back
ZONER IS HONEST CHARACTER JUST LET ZONER TO ZONE YOU, ITS JUST ZONER'S WINNING CONDITION.

Oh yes. Nothing broken about 1hit ~180dmg wallbounces after 100dmg disjointed normal that can be canceled into safety. Just block, totally honest.

[ttv/AmaterrasVT]

Speaking of cheap characters, have you all seen Suisei's j.S frame data? Oh boy, I know I did..

Also Botan's kit is fine, she's not cheap and more of a "general mechanics knowledge check" character. The only thing busted about her is her combo damage and that's it.

Also Aki is totally balanced, no cap, fr fr, on God.
Us Aki players doesn't have a 5f light attack and a 1 bar reversal, please be kind to us as we have to deal with oki and pressure and not being able to counter them with abare or invul DPs. /s

Nah but fr tho, I think Aki is wild and definitely top tier, but she's not as busted as Suisei or Korone in high level play. These two characters just have so much plus frames on a lot of their moves, making them unpunishable by nearly anything.

[pseudo]

Originally posted by ttv/AmaterrasVT:

Nah but fr tho, I think Aki is wild and definitely top tier, but she's not as busted as Suisei or Korone in high level play. These two characters just have so much plus frames on a lot of their moves, making them unpunishable by nearly anything.

I think this is just yet another misconception forming as people are learning the game. Botan is a noob stomper. People are getting used to her gimmick and gitting gud. Just like Botan, it's happening with Suisei. Now that people have had a chance to learn Suisei and bring her potential out in a fight, people see her as broken. As the meta develops, people will get used to Suisei and how to stop her from running her game plan.

Originally posted by ComboMaker69:

my brutha in christ, Sajam is the opposite of a controversial-takes maker

I seriously doubt you've experienced Sajam long enough to recognise that he's a natural ♥♥♥♥ disturber that says stuff to create an occasional buzz in the FGC.

[Auspice]

Originally posted by ttv/AmaterrasVT:

Also Botan's kit is fine, she's not cheap and more of a "general mechanics knowledge check" character. The only thing busted about her is her combo damage and that's it.

j2H is pretty busted, but Botan is basically "Idol Showdown, the character"

I think Aki is not balanced and she's still top 1, but I do agree in general that she's beatable.

Suisei isn't broken, her only real good neutral poke is 2M and while her mix is very good (probably best in the game) she needs to work very hard to actually get the hit against the midscreen gods (Aki, Sora, Korone, Fubuki). I think in general people underestimate just how hard it is to get in on Sora/Korone/Fubuki 5M + projectiles + antiairs.

[ttv/AmaterrasVT]

Originally posted by pseudo:

I think this is just yet another misconception forming as people are learning the game. Botan is a noob stomper. People are getting used to her gimmick and gitting gud. Just like Botan, it's happening with Suisei. Now that people have had a chance to learn Suisei and bring her potential out in a fight, people see her as broken. As the meta develops, people will get used to Suisei and how to stop her from running her game plan.

Yeah, to be fair, that's how most fighting games are..
But then again, frame data is something that only the devs can change, and boy, having a busted ass TK j.S that's near unreactable to anti-air and gives you AT WORST a +5 on block is just busted..

If it's a gimmick like Aki teleports, I'm not gonna complain because it's a skill issue and most of her buttons are minus, so if I guess right on a block, I can steal my turn.

Suisei tho? You block and guess all the mixups right, then she just TK j.S your ass and she got in for free.
Her frame datas are just way too good compared to the other cast, j.S being the most problematic. Even Korone's TK j.S is -4 at best.
Her 2L is 0 on block, making it a scary command grab setup. 236L is -2 safe on block and it's very easy to get it to hit the tip and make it +1, 214L/M is +2 at worst and the projectile doesn't disappear even when she's hit by an abare attempt, etc etc.

The options for Suisei to pressure the opponent is just too much, if it's just one or two thing, then alright, it's an RPS situation. I'll make a guess and throw some rocks, no biggie, but that's just not the case here.

tl;dr
I will always advocate for Suisei nerfs, her j.S in particular. Everything else is alright I guess, that j.S is a stuff of nightmares tho. At least make it easier to anti-air on reaction.

Edit:
Speaking of Suisei counterplays... Honestly, I got no idea. I know I went on a vitriol about her j.S and plus frames. But I really do need a counterplay, or at least a general idea of one. Because at this point, the only thing I find to be pretty reliable is to just instant block, build up Superchat, and call for assist during her stagger pressures, of course aside from making an RPS guess. Granted, I usually run Miko or Roboco and they're very good to keep someone off your ass.

[Bellu]

Originally posted by ttv/AmaterrasVT:

Also Aki is totally balanced, no cap, fr fr, on God.
Us Aki players doesn't have a 5f light attack and a 1 bar reversal,

Which move is 5f? Aren't 5L and 2L 6f?

[ttv/AmaterrasVT]

Originally posted by Torinade:

Originally posted by ttv/AmaterrasVT:

Also Aki is totally balanced, no cap, fr fr, on God.
Us Aki players doesn't have a 5f light attack and a 1 bar reversal,

Which move is 5f? Aren't 5L and 2L 6f?

I'm just gonna let you re-read my quote there for a bit...

[pseudo]

Originally posted by ttv/AmaterrasVT:

Suisei tho? You block and guess all the mixups right, then she just TK j.S your ass and she got in for free.

I think you're exaggerating how good j.S is. If used pointblank, it still has a whopping 26f of punishable startup frames. I say pointblank because travel distance if used farther than that only makes it more reactable. While the distance adds to the frame advantage on block, this is the classic case of a move where "you're only minus if you're a ♥♥♥♥♥". Don't be blocking.

https://wiki.gbl.gg/images/thumb/8/83/IS_Suisei_jS_hitbox.png/175px-IS_Suisei_jS_hitbox.png

Just take a look at the hurtboxes that get generated here. It's not disjointed so go ahead and challenge that button if you see it coming out. If you have anything disjointed to use, Suichan will die without any risk.