Have a Nice Death

Have a Nice Death

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Is this a true roguelike or a roguelite?
As above
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
leo_gear Jan 9 @ 11:12am 
It's considered a roguelite because it has some meta progression like opening up more random upgrade options you can choose from when you can get stuff like weapons/spells and curses. You can even use ingots to unlock one thing in your next run (but it'll be random after that and once it's unlocked, you can't guarantee it after that point) if you want to try and make that playthru more unique.

It's more a roguelike because no matter the run, you have the same HP, MP, defense, damage, and weapon and your upgrades (called curses) are reset and randomized. You are always reset to base stats and base weapon but you get the option to try different difficulty options and like above, spend ingots to get a bonus something (usually a spell or weapon) to make your next run different but you have the option to take that or go with something else.

At the start of each run, you get contracts. They're challenges you have to do to get a reward or face a pentalty. These are like "defeat X amount of enemies in Y time or take Z damage. If you succeed, get 50 currency". These are also randomized and only selectable at the start of each run.

Once you've done enough runs, got enough to unlock all the meta progression unlocks, all your runs will be completely random from that point on.
dachte Mar 14 @ 7:14am 
It's not a roguelike. Roguelikes are turn-based tile-based dungeon-crawlers of the style of D&D. Games like nethack, moria, angband, and of course rogue. This game has no resemblance to rogue whatsoever.
Originally posted by dachte:
It's not a roguelike. Roguelikes are turn-based tile-based dungeon-crawlers of the style of D&D. Games like nethack, moria, angband, and of course rogue. This game has no resemblance to rogue whatsoever.
That's not what a roguelike is. Roguelikes full reset you after every run when you die. Roguelites let you have some progression between runs. Whether or not a game involves dungeon crawling does not determine if it is a roguelike.
Its an action rougelike which is different then a rougelike, they have different criteria.
Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:
Originally posted by dachte:
It's not a roguelike. Roguelikes are turn-based tile-based dungeon-crawlers of the style of D&D. Games like nethack, moria, angband, and of course rogue. This game has no resemblance to rogue whatsoever.
That's not what a roguelike is. Roguelikes full reset you after every run when you die. Roguelites let you have some progression between runs. Whether or not a game involves dungeon crawling does not determine if it is a roguelike.

Roguelike (or rogue-like) is a style of role-playing game traditionally characterized by a dungeon crawl through procedurally generated levels, turn-based gameplay, grid-based movement, and permanent death of the player character. Most roguelikes are based on a high fantasy narrative, reflecting the influence of tabletop role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

What he said is correct in pretty much every description, its why there are so many sub genres of rougelike.

That being said the terminology of words and their meanings can changed based on how many people use it and in what way, its likely to change from what it currently is because not many people use it correctly. This process is called semantic change.
Last edited by LazyJoeBeard; Mar 14 @ 7:53am
Originally posted by LazyJoeBeard:
Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:
That's not what a roguelike is. Roguelikes full reset you after every run when you die. Roguelites let you have some progression between runs. Whether or not a game involves dungeon crawling does not determine if it is a roguelike.

Roguelike (or rogue-like) is a style of role-playing game traditionally characterized by a dungeon crawl through procedurally generated levels, turn-based gameplay, grid-based movement, and permanent death of the player character. Most roguelikes are based on a high fantasy narrative, reflecting the influence of tabletop role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

What he said is correct in pretty much every description, its why there are so many sub genres of rougelike.

That being said the terminology of words and their meanings can changed based on how many people use it and in what way, its likely to change from what it currently is because not many people use it correctly. This process is called semantic change.


Ok, fair.

It's definitely adjusted its meaning over time, though, to where only the permanent death is necessary for it to be a roguelike, though often randomly generated levels are involved, and dungeon crawling (or some variant of adventure exploration, like how D&D isn't all dungeon exploration) are almost always implied.
The turn-based part is absolute not necessary anymore.

Last edited by Chadiwan Kenobi; Mar 14 @ 8:30am
dachte Mar 14 @ 2:49pm 
Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:
It's definitely adjusted its meaning over time, though, to where only the permanent death is necessary for it to be a roguelike, though often randomly generated levels are involved, and dungeon crawling (or some variant of adventure exploration, like how D&D isn't all dungeon exploration) are almost always implied.

No, it's just a bunch of youngsters came in who have never played a roguelike and they're trying to squat on our term. I'm a roguelike developer (was dev on an Angband variant as well as an independent codebase). People should stop using the term for games that are not turn-based tile-based D&D style games. And we will keep reminding people until they stop misusing our term.
leo_gear Mar 23 @ 7:15pm 
Originally posted by dachte:
Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:
It's definitely adjusted its meaning over time, though, to where only the permanent death is necessary for it to be a roguelike, though often randomly generated levels are involved, and dungeon crawling (or some variant of adventure exploration, like how D&D isn't all dungeon exploration) are almost always implied.

No, it's just a bunch of youngsters came in who have never played a roguelike and they're trying to squat on our term. I'm a roguelike developer (was dev on an Angband variant as well as an independent codebase). People should stop using the term for games that are not turn-based tile-based D&D style games. And we will keep reminding people until they stop misusing our term.

Terms often encapsulate context. Games, for their times, usually had various limitations like connection speed, net-code, etc that aren't applicable thus transform the gameplay.

This is a funny parallel to JRPG which was a specific genre of narrative focused turn-based RPG originating from Japan. But many developers from Japan have expressed that the turn-based aspect isn't the focus, which is why many JRPGs now-a-days have action-like combat or some variation on real-time decision making (talking specifically about Square-Enix and the Final Fantasy series here but it can expand to man franchises within the genre). JRPGs were a genre formed from the limitations of hardware that are not so relevant now that can include deep choice based branching narratives as well as actiony combat and even multi-player functionality.

You could say MMORPGs also transition from the old limitations to what they are now thanks to technology advancing, both good and bad.

Ultimately though, you may not like that gamers, reviewers and even developers change terminology, but it's inevitable...and to better communicate, they use qualifiers to better get the idea across (so this game would be like an action roguelite/roguelike in that regards), not because there are strict definitions of what the terms are but rather to communicate a message to others interested in playing the game.

Or how would you describe the game to the OP? Arcade? They probably wouldn't understand what that means. You'd then have to describe the games and vibes of Arcades and then link those aspects to this game. But there are clear differences between a standard Contra Arcade-like game and Have A Nice Death, namely the important aspect of what makes Arcade games Arcade: multiplayer. Without multiplayer, it almost wholly disqualifies this game from fitting that genre. So what's left? Generic Action-Game? And thus, we get to the crux of why we change terminology in the first place...to communicate more effectively.
dachte Mar 24 @ 11:25am 
If it doesn't resemble Rogue, it's not a roguelike. I don't care what terms people use for this "die a lot" stuff, but expect continual justified complaints and nags when you use a term that already has and had a meaning for something unrelated.
You're kinda the only person I've ever encountered who has nagged about this.
dachte Mar 24 @ 12:15pm 
Originally posted by Chadiwan Kenobi:
You're kinda the only person I've ever encountered who has nagged about this.

The roguelike community is small and a lot of us are older.
leo_gear Mar 24 @ 8:26pm 
Originally posted by dachte:
If it doesn't resemble Rogue, it's not a roguelike. I don't care what terms people use for this "die a lot" stuff, but expect continual justified complaints and nags when you use a term that already has and had a meaning for something unrelated.

I think your pushback is likely counter to your community. What I mean is, if you try to gatekeep too hard, you alienate the term and people just stop using it or completely forget its origins. That's why the other term, roguelite, came into use, so it doesn't alienate people. Because if we just use another term, no one would even know or care what a true Rogue game is...thus we wouldn't see as many games aiming for that niche style.

This isn't limited to Rogue genre games either. The same gatekeeping is going on for Soulslike/Soulslite as well...but that genre is more mainstream.
dachte Mar 25 @ 9:05am 
Originally posted by leo_gear:
Originally posted by dachte:
If it doesn't resemble Rogue, it's not a roguelike. I don't care what terms people use for this "die a lot" stuff, but expect continual justified complaints and nags when you use a term that already has and had a meaning for something unrelated.

I think your pushback is likely counter to your community. What I mean is, if you try to gatekeep too hard, you alienate the term and people just stop using it or completely forget its origins. That's why the other term, roguelite, came into use, so it doesn't alienate people. Because if we just use another term, no one would even know or care what a true Rogue game is...thus we wouldn't see as many games aiming for that niche style.

This isn't limited to Rogue genre games either. The same gatekeeping is going on for Soulslike/Soulslite as well...but that genre is more mainstream.

I am happy to see people stop using the term for games that don't resemble rogue. I don't mind if the term falls back into only being used by the roguelike community; we've been around for decades and are fine with being an obscure game genre.
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