Demo Feedback. I hope everyone shares their thoughts.

[Lightning]

I've been waiting on this game for years but at the state it's in now I wouldn't even blink to let go of those 4 years of wait, it's borderline unplayable.
the concept seems fun but the gameplay needs a lot of polish:
1- The jump attack is just atrocious, being stuck in the air like that while the animation plays out is just very bad design and takes away all control you have of your character, and the fact you stay like that in midair actually feels bad.
2- In fact the gamepolay as a whole needs a lot of work towards responsiveness as even on the ground when attacking and being forced to be in animation lock, again, feels bad.
3- The stamina system for a vania game is pretty restricting and doesn't feel as good or second-nature as a souls game.
4- Character should be able to go up ledges just by pressing UP on the controller, having to press (A) + (UP) makes the game feel even more unresponsive.
5- Rolling distance is too short and doesn't really do much to get you out of harm's way.
6- You need to have a parry system if this is to play like a souls game.
7- The map seriously needs an upgrade, not having it would be better than whatever it is I'm looking at.

I will say though I really loved the exploration and the verticality of the game, there are multiple paths and secrets and I enjoy that. It would be far better with a decent map though.

[KrisEnigma]

There is a parry: LT + X, which feels pretty bad. Should be a single button. Controls in general and button layout feel pretty bad tbh.

[zoothe]

I agree about the jump attack; the way you stop in place mid-air is weird. I felt the gameplay was solid otherwise. Stamina was fine and I didn't even upgrade it a single time; no notes there. Parry was fine once you get used to the control (which wasn't hard); it's also pretty forgiving which I like. Not sure what was your problem with the map- I thought it was pretty good. Did you not upgrade the map NPC (can't remember his name atm) with the fragments or something?

[ragosaurus]

The atmosphere of the game is amazing, I enjoyed the graphics and sound.

The gameplay feels a little bit lackluster though with the sluggish movement, animation locking and what feels like action queueing. I too hate the jump attack. I don't like that the character will sometimes hit the ledge they should grab onto and sort of clumsily slided off of it.

I don't even mind the stamina that much, but the combat just feels repetitive, boring and random. It looks like my attacks sometimes stagger the enemy, but a second later the same enemy will just attack me through my animation and I get hit before I can do anything. It's not great.

[Gesto]

+1 for the jump attack feeling weird and floaty.

[Saukuy]

The whole movement and combat system feels... off. Like you're moving through treacle. With lots of enemies against you it kinda feels clunky. Not difficult, just not very engaging and more like you're fighting the game rather than the enemies. Compared to other 2D action games like Dead Cells or Hollow Knight, or even Blasphemous, it just feels really meh.

And like mentioned, controls in general are a bit naff. You can change them all, sure, but decisions like combo-press for parry is never a good idea.

Something I've not heard people mention, but I think bears saying too - the levelling up is incredibly dull. A massive level-up tree looks cool, but when 90% of the nodes are bland +1 stat upgrades, it doesn't feel good.

[ahmad]

The game-play is satisfying, great soundtrack and the environment is beautiful but my FPS drops during loading screens and enemy animations

[Brids17]

Fall damage for a game like this is also a pretty bold choice, falling down a hole you couldn't see and dropping everything on death feels really bad. Combat overall feels clunky and the stamina seems overly limiting considering you don't draw from it for skills but rather a separate bar you fill up with attacks.

[Thrrax]

Originally posted by Lightning:

I've been waiting on this game for years but at the state it's in now I wouldn't even blink to let go of those 4 years of wait, it's borderline unplayable.
the concept seems fun but the gameplay needs a lot of polish:
1- The jump attack is just atrocious, being stuck in the air like that while the animation plays out is just very bad design and takes away all control you have of your character, and the fact you stay like that in midair actually feels bad.
2- In fact the gamepolay as a whole needs a lot of work towards responsiveness as even on the ground when attacking and being forced to be in animation lock, again, feels bad.
3- The stamina system for a vania game is pretty restricting and doesn't feel as good or second-nature as a souls game.
4- Character should be able to go up ledges just by pressing UP on the controller, having to press (A) + (UP) makes the game feel even more unresponsive.
5- Rolling distance is too short and doesn't really do much to get you out of harm's way.
6- You need to have a parry system if this is to play like a souls game.
7- The map seriously needs an upgrade, not having it would be better than whatever it is I'm looking at.

I will say though I really loved the exploration and the verticality of the game, there are multiple paths and secrets and I enjoy that. It would be far better with a decent map though.

1. Yep. Very confusing.
4. True. Same with going down.
5. Yep. I died so many times by falling of platforms because I double tapped in fear that I won't get too far from the enemies.
6. Yep. What the character in the demo has is not a parry, but technically a shield deflect. And an ability at that. A parry should be able to be executed with any weapon, and be a basic move if the character wields even a stick.
7. The map being confusing at first and then becoming clear once you get fragments and upgrade it is actually a cool idea. Kinda like at first you navigate based on memory, and then you get to note all those landmarks on the map fragments you find.

[truth_till_end]

1- yep, true, but I also noted that when you jump on an enemy from above and it starts hitting, you will stuck for a sec and receive the damage in the air :)
2- true 100%, feels like a queue of actions, if you press hit then rolling, you will roll after animation of hitting stops. Got me killed a few times.
3- hate. this. so. much.
4- true.
5- true, and again, see point 2 - you cannot press twice fast as the animation of first roll is still played
7- map system is a trash, I'm sorry

[Zafarion]

The freeze in air while attacking after jump is really awfull. I hope they change this.

[Zafarion]

Originally posted by Brids17:

Fall damage for a game like this is also a pretty bold choice, falling down a hole you couldn't see and dropping everything on death feels really bad. Combat overall feels clunky and the stamina seems overly limiting considering you don't draw from it for skills but rather a separate bar you fill up with attacks.

This add some realism and these games usually have items/skills that alleviate fall damage or even prevent it. Fall damage and stamina bar in 2D soulslikes are very common and I hope they keep it.

[Spawn of Apathy]

Originally posted by KrisEnigma:

There is a parry: LT + X, which feels pretty bad. Should be a single button. Controls in general and button layout feel pretty bad tbh.

Worse is when you release LT to stop guarding, hit X to attack, but character still does a parry swing instead.

[Spawn of Apathy]

I got more used to the feel of the game. The first enemies you run into feel harder than ones you encounter later. It actually felt like the game got easier when I ran into bandits and rats. But the controls are still sluggish. Overall I'm not a fan of how the stamina, adrenaline, and mana systems synergize and are tuned. It starts to get a bit better as you level up, but does make the opening moments of the game feel bad, uninviting, and not very intuitive to play when combined with the slow animations and input registration.

I do want to like the game though. The soundtrack and art style combine for a mood that, to me, resembles Diablo 3. I like the art of NPCs you talk to very well. And was that fisherman a reference to Baelin from Epic NPC Man? lol

[appo]

Originally posted by Lightning:

I've been waiting on this game for years but at the state it's in now I wouldn't even blink to let go of those 4 years of wait, it's borderline unplayable.
the concept seems fun but the gameplay needs a lot of polish:
1- The jump attack is just atrocious, being stuck in the air like that while the animation plays out is just very bad design and takes away all control you have of your character, and the fact you stay like that in midair actually feels bad.
2- In fact the gamepolay as a whole needs a lot of work towards responsiveness as even on the ground when attacking and being forced to be in animation lock, again, feels bad.
3- The stamina system for a vania game is pretty restricting and doesn't feel as good or second-nature as a souls game.
4- Character should be able to go up ledges just by pressing UP on the controller, having to press (A) + (UP) makes the game feel even more unresponsive.
5- Rolling distance is too short and doesn't really do much to get you out of harm's way.
6- You need to have a parry system if this is to play like a souls game.
7- The map seriously needs an upgrade, not having it would be better than whatever it is I'm looking at.

I will say though I really loved the exploration and the verticality of the game, there are multiple paths and secrets and I enjoy that. It would be far better with a decent map though.

Dude you played the demo for 21 minutes, didn't even give it a chance. Wild bro.
My thoughts and response to your post, debating making my own because I loved the demo.
1. I didn't like the jump attack either, I believe it MIGHT feel better with different weapon types. Don't really think they should stop the animation lock aspect of it though.
2- Animation locks force you to think before you do things bro, I just beat the demo after 2 hours and I barely had to think about the combat except for the final boss. If you remove animation locks It'll probably make the game way too easy because the enemies are also animation locked. (Kinda think it's already too easy) Just roll 4head.
3- Didn't have a problem with stamina, got items that increased my endurance & leveled it up in the talent tree. You played for 21 minutes I understand why you wouldn't have seen the talent screen.
4- I can agree with this
5- Didn't have a problem with the rolling at all, the enemies don't have collision damage don't be afraid to just run up on them and roll through.
6- Parry is kinda weird, it's L2 + Square/X but it's there and works.
7- You played for 21 minutes, you have to take map fragments to your resident mapmaker. He's a little further ahead.

On my own personal thoughts, I hate the sprint button and sprint in general. Felt faster either backstepping or roll spamming. The button on its own though was enough for me to ignore it. Didn't try rebinding it, don't even know if you can since I wanted to play the way they intended so I could see how I felt about it.

[salatiel.garciam]

It fells good in general, I agree with the jump attack weirdness, aside from that: great!
I can't wait to play the other classes, I hope the skill tree is not class-locked.

The only criticism I could make is that it feels too easy, maybe is just my experience from souls games, but in general I expect a little bit more challenge.

Great job, definitely recommend to play!