Movement design is stupid

[TheoreticalString]

So the first mission is get to a well in 22 turns. I fail. Why? Because I never draw enough movement cards to get there. The drafts have no movement cards, the stores have no movement cards, I literally could not have won under any circumstances.

Uh. This is really bad design.

[David]

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience on this map. Finding the correct deck build in between movement & combat is part of the design indeed. Randomness of the card is also part of the design. how to be fast enough yet powerful enough to overcome the ennemies is subtle. Even with no luck on there is often tactical choices to beat the odds. Removing card from you deck will enhance the chance you have to draw the mouvement card you want. Increasing your energy or gain of fly ability is another one.
In later level Ways of the Mahoken can also help you master the randomness.
I hope I have been able to provide you good tips on how to work you way around.

[TheoreticalString]

I understand the concept of deckbuilders. I'm Ascension 20 on StS and Covenant 25 on Monster Train. The problem is that there's no actual control here. I can't fix the deck just not being able to even give me a chance to accomplish the objective. This is not "get gud", this is the fact I couldn't cross that distance in that time with the deck given.

Let us pitch two cards to move one space or something.

[David]

You can also use raw energy to move, so even if you don't have mouvement card, you can still move. (right click to visualize, right click to confirm)

[teekay15]

Originally posted by TheoreticalString:

I understand the concept of deckbuilders. I'm Ascension 20 on StS and Covenant 25 on Monster Train.

I am sorry but you paid someone to do that then, that map is ridiculously easy, you dont need movement abilities. I had none and finished well within the time with all challenges completed. I am just checking but you did do the tutorial and learn that you dont need a card to move right?
"pitch two cards to move one space"!!?? Mate how did you even get past ascension 1 much less 20...do the tutorial again, actually read the text this time.

[creepgenie]

Originally posted by teekay15:

Originally posted by TheoreticalString:

I understand the concept of deckbuilders. I'm Ascension 20 on StS and Covenant 25 on Monster Train.

I am sorry but you paid someone to do that then, that map is ridiculously easy, you dont need movement abilities. I had none and finished well within the time with all challenges completed. I am just checking but you did do the tutorial and learn that you dont need a card to move right?
"pitch two cards to move one space"!!?? Mate how did you even get past ascension 1 much less 20...do the tutorial again, actually read the text this time.

yes, i do not understand how to complete what he said in STS or Monster train and not read the tutorial tooltips.
it is the main concept of the game.
So just restart the tutorial and read the card tooltip too.

[Sedina]

"Finding the correct deck build in between movement & combat is part of the design indeed."

I hear you, Chief, but you NEED to add a guaranteed Movement card draw to each randomized pull. If I don't see a Movement in the first, say, 3-5 pulls (6-10 turns) I know it's a loss and I have to restart.

It is a GREAT idea.

Please refine it a bit.

[Sedina]

Originally posted by TheoreticalString:

So the first mission is get to a well in 22 turns. I fail. Why? Because I never draw enough movement cards to get there. The drafts have no movement cards, the stores have no movement cards, I literally could not have won under any circumstances.

Uh. This is really bad design.

I beat this on my first try and I completely agree with you. The luck of the movement card draw is too much.

It's a great idea for a great spin on the genre! I love it!

Please, let us random pull a movement card.

[GeneralGonzo]

Originally posted by Sedina:

"Finding the correct deck build in between movement & combat is part of the design indeed."

I hear you, Chief, but you NEED to add a guaranteed Movement card draw to each randomized pull. If I don't see a Movement in the first, say, 3-5 pulls (6-10 turns) I know it's a loss and I have to restart.

It is a GREAT idea.

Please refine it a bit.

I don´t understand your point! You indeed even don´t need any movement card to solve the map.......normal movement with energy is sufficient! So I don´t get it......you must have made something wrong.

[harris]

Originally posted by David:

You can also use raw energy to move, so even if you don't have mouvement card, you can still move. (right click to visualize, right click to confirm)

could you please remove the turn limit in some degrees since i want to go everywhere in a map without stress

[Cap'n Darwin]

The movement system is fine and when couples with certain cards really adds a layer of thinking to maneuver across the map to meet various challenges.

As for removing timers, up to the Devs, but I would kill achievements and and lock out timed challenges from being paid out if timers can be shut off. Timed missions and challenges are what make the game fun.

[Sedina]

Originally posted by GeneralGonzo:

I don´t understand your point! You indeed even don´t need any movement card to solve the map.......normal movement with energy is sufficient! So I don´t get it......you must have made something wrong.

No, I beat that map on my first try. However, without movement card pulls in later maps, that timer gets... rough.

My suggestion is just to add a guaranteed movement card pull to each random collection. I love the movement mechanic, but since turn count / timer is absolutely critical, it can absolutely be a loss if you don't grab a dash or something early on.

Again, I love the mechanic. It forces you to build a balanced deck. But if you don't random any movement cards or find any in the stores, you are out of luck.

[PhilStormBorn]

I read that there are only 3 maps with turn limits. Is part of the worry here that because it happens on the first real map that this is going to happen more often than that?
The starting character has movement synergy and you get 2 movement cards in the tutorial.
It seems to me the map is balanced. In any card game if you draw the wrong cards you are going to lose, especially early on.
All you have to do is get to the last hex. You don't have to arrive there on full health and of explored every hex or completed every side quest.
If someone is genuinely concerned the map is broken maybe record a play through and then we can discuss the luck and decisions involved. As I say, seems fine to me.

[Sedina]

Originally posted by PhilStormBorn:

All you have to do is get to the last hex. You don't have to arrive there on full health and of explored every hex or completed every side quest.
If someone is genuinely concerned the map is broken maybe record a play through and then we can discuss the luck and decisions involved. As I say, seems fine to me.

Not talking about the early map - totally agree that can be done with the default hand and base move! And it's a great way to introduce the mechanics, IMO.

I'm referring to a later map that's large, where you have to kill 20 mobs in 30 turns. There are two types of mobs on this map: one will run away and bring a friend when damaged, and the other stays at range. The map itself is covered in hills, mountains, and forests - which makes using default movement very, very difficult.

Even taking advantage of the mob AI like in Gloomhaven, where I deliberately leave the first type alive to run away and go wake up a friend, I'm unable to hit that goal without drawing a few early move cards with the Red character. Blue doesn't have this issue because they're already very heavily movement-based.

[PhilStormBorn]

Originally posted by Sedina:

Not talking about the early map - totally agree that can be done with the default hand and base move! And it's a great way to introduce the mechanics, IMO.

I'm referring to a later map that's large, where you have to kill 20 mobs in 30 turns. There are two types of mobs on this map: one will run away and bring a friend when damaged, and the other stays at range. The map itself is covered in hills, mountains, and forests - which makes using default movement very, very difficult.

Even taking advantage of the mob AI like in Gloomhaven, where I deliberately leave the first type alive to run away and go wake up a friend, I'm unable to hit that goal without drawing a few early move cards with the Red character. Blue doesn't have this issue because they're already very heavily movement-based.

It wasn't a reply to you because I hadn't done it and was replying to the OP. I did that one first time (as red) just now. Was kind of kicking myself at the start because I could of thought about the Ways of the Mahoken better and had points unspent. I'm will to accept I might of got lucky with card options. I got a few fly cards which help with the terrain. But I did it on the 30th turn out of 35. I had done one side mission before it and was level 4 red. To be honest I think at that point even if it hadn't worked out there are options to play with and I can't imagine one failed run would of been too frustrating.

I read your post in a constructive manner so absolutely not arguing with you. The OP's post is not constructive (no suggestions) and rude to the dev team.

[Pwndnoob]

OP didn't read the tutorials and wasn't clicking places to move, ignore this discussion.