Catacombs puzzle needs work...

[wolfinston85]

The game is incredible, thank you first hand for making it, but...

The puzzle in the catacombs where you're supposed to change the skull chains in a certain order in order to get past the flaming gate needs work; I don't understand what the order is, I thought it had to do with the flames in the actual tombs, but enabling and disabling the skulls in each catacomb didn't work? So then it turn out that it was a combination of some of the chains being enabled and others not?

I'm just saying, please simplify it a bit, I also don't think this is a me issue because I saw this video of a guy also stumped on what to do:

https://youtu.be/tucAuKbbqEc?si=5sEBi67HL2d56g_S&t=3867

Please restructure this puzzle or at least give better hints for it, kindly.

[CannibalBob]

Gotta do an IRL perception check. The torches on the other side show if the skull is pulled down or not

[Vesperas]

Yeah, it's pretty simple. I think I figured it out within a minute when I first did it a year back or whatever. I'm not sure why people have issues with it or the mirrored floor rooms in Grim Haven.

I guess a lot of people are just really bad at basic problem solving.

[darkwind]

Problem with this puzzle is that it gives you options to overthink.
First you have 4 catacombs with one blocked. So you think that you need to look for secret entrance. Then you have those skulls buttons with glowing eyes when turn on, but you also have glowing pedestals when they're turn off. At first you may not see torches so you just turn on all skulls, then turn off all of them. Plus you need to go through 2 "doors" in every catacomb so it start to be annoying.

[Emberheart Games]

Thanks for your input! We got lots of mixed responses on this. Some players don't have any problems with it, while others can't solve it without a guide. We will revisit that puzzle to make it a bit less "annoying" but not easier. Most likely, we will remove barriers between different sections so you don't have to go outside to switch sides and a few other things.

We also want to introduce similar but much more simple puzzle earlier in the game so you know what to expect when you encounter the big one in the cemetery.

[darkwind]

Originally posted by Emberheart Games:

Thanks for your input! We got lots of mixed responses on this. Some players don't have any problems with it, while others can't solve it without a guide. We will revisit that puzzle to make it a bit less "annoying" but not easier. Most likely, we will remove barriers between different sections so you don't have to go outside to switch sides and a few other things.

We also want to introduce similar but much more simple puzzle earlier in the game so you know what to expect when you encounter the big one in the cemetery.

That would be great. If I may suggest one more early introduction to game mechanic. Those buttons that you need shoot so something will open. I think on first or second level that button is on high wall(and if I'm not mistaken revealed after some explosion that destroys part of the wall.) It would be nice to have some introduction to those buttons. Without guide I would never even start to look for it.

[Vesperas]

The player is officially introduced to the buttons in Grim Haven, where you'll need to shoot two of them to progress. IIRC, they only appear before that for unlocking secrets.

Even so, it's pretty obvious that they're buttons once you see them. In Canal Streets, the button is directly facing a locked gate with visible items behind it. I'm assuming it was introduced the way it was because that same secret leads to an easter egg.

You'll encounter more of them attached to secrets in Murky Wastes. Again, it's very obvious that they're buttons if you see them.

I'm not sure why the player needs to be introduced to them earlier.

[darkwind]

Originally posted by Vesperas:

The player is officially introduced to the buttons in Grim Haven, where you'll need to shoot two of them to progress. IIRC, they only appear before that for unlocking secrets.

Even so, it's pretty obvious that they're buttons once you see them. In Canal Streets, the button is directly facing a locked gate with visible items behind it. I'm assuming it was introduced the way it was because that same secret leads to an easter egg.

You'll encounter more of them attached to secrets in Murky Wastes. Again, it's very obvious that they're buttons if you see them.

I'm not sure why the player needs to be introduced to them earlier.

Yeah i'm talkin about the one in Canal street. It's the first time it is used but it's not facing the gate, it's on the side, in the niche on high part of the wall and it's appearing after you get gold key when elements of the background start to explode. At this moment you're fighting spawning monster. It's almost impossible to find that.
Next one is in the sewers level and yes they both considered secrets but still we have at least 2 places where this mechanic is used before Grim Haven and it's not explained well.

[Vesperas]

Originally posted by darkwind:

Originally posted by Vesperas:

The player is officially introduced to the buttons in Grim Haven, where you'll need to shoot two of them to progress. IIRC, they only appear before that for unlocking secrets.

Even so, it's pretty obvious that they're buttons once you see them. In Canal Streets, the button is directly facing a locked gate with visible items behind it. I'm assuming it was introduced the way it was because that same secret leads to an easter egg.

You'll encounter more of them attached to secrets in Murky Wastes. Again, it's very obvious that they're buttons if you see them.

I'm not sure why the player needs to be introduced to them earlier.

Yeah i'm talkin about the one in Canal street. It's the first time it is used but it's not facing the gate, it's on the side, in the niche on high part of the wall and it's appearing after you get gold key when elements of the background start to explode. At this moment you're fighting spawning monster. It's almost impossible to find that.
Next one is in the sewers level and yes they both considered secrets but still we have at least 2 places where this mechanic is used before Grim Haven and it's not explained well.

The point is it's meant to be a secret. If the player is determined to look for a way into the clearly visible but otherwise inaccessible secret area, they're bound to attack the button if you see it, simply because it looks out of place and is in the immediate vicinity of the gate. You can hit the button with the ice wand and watch the gate open by simply turning around. You're not required to move to witness it.

This is what I did. I didn't need a guide.

There's no real need to explain how it functions. The player has already been introduced to attackable, interactive objects--whether it be barrels, chandeliers, vases, jars, breakable walls or the magical barrier orb you're required to destroy earlier in the level to progress.

Why does a huge, round, obviously out-of-place, glowing button that has an on / off animation and accompanying sound need a tutorial but nothing else does?

[kermit]

Originally posted by darkwind:

Problem with this puzzle is that it gives you options to overthink.
First you have 4 catacombs with one blocked. So you think that you need to look for secret entrance. Then you have those skulls buttons with glowing eyes when turn on, but you also have glowing pedestals when they're turn off. At first you may not see torches so you just turn on all skulls, then turn off all of them. Plus you need to go through 2 "doors" in every catacomb so it start to be annoying.

I quit the game and came to the discussion page to see what to do for this section after going through every single thing this person just described. I never noticed any torches, I just thought they all needed to be switched and the blocked entrance made me assume I was missing a secret passage.

[Vesperas]

Originally posted by kermit:

Originally posted by darkwind:

Problem with this puzzle is that it gives you options to overthink.
First you have 4 catacombs with one blocked. So you think that you need to look for secret entrance. Then you have those skulls buttons with glowing eyes when turn on, but you also have glowing pedestals when they're turn off. At first you may not see torches so you just turn on all skulls, then turn off all of them. Plus you need to go through 2 "doors" in every catacomb so it start to be annoying.

I quit the game and came to the discussion page to see what to do for this section after going through every single thing this person just described. I never noticed any torches, I just thought they all needed to be switched and the blocked entrance made me assume I was missing a secret passage.

As I've said before, I solved this puzzle in about a minute. My critical thinking skills must be over 9,000 or something because it seemed extremely simple.

The whole map leads you to this large, final area. There is literally nowhere else to go without significant backtracking.

The area features tombs in a NE, NW, SE, SW layout with visible (albeit in one case, blocked) entrances with a central, inaccessible structure. Each tomb leads to a straight section with nothing of interest except enemies and two skull switches, which appear to do nothing.

Upon clearing all three areas, using the switches and concluding nothing happens, intelligent players are bound to inevitably put on their thinking hats and start looking for clues, starting with the switches themselves.

While analyzing the six skull switches, the player should quickly notice that they're arranged in left and right pairs, with some have glowing red eyes (indicating "on") while others do not (indicating "off"). We know these are "on" and "off" because we've encountered these skull switches earlier in the level.

Meanwhile, while looking straight ahead across the chasm at the central pillar, the player will inevitably notice that the pillar coincidentally features two torches, arranged in left and right pairs, some of which are lit (or "on") and some of which are burnt out (or "off"). It is impossible to not see the torches unless the player is not paying attention at all--the player must be facing them in order to use the skull switches.

From here, the player simply needs to match the switch state to the torch state to solve the puzzle.

It's an extremely simple observation puzzle that requires basic thinking skills. Quite frankly, if people are incapable of that or are prone to "over-thinking it," it's probably safe to say that they won't be able to reasonably solve any puzzle that requires either of those things or any thinking whatsoever.

Above all, I'm especially not sure why people are complaining about it once they've figured it out. It only has to be completed once.

Personally, one of the things I've particularly enjoyed in Wizordum are the puzzles, and I don't think that the developers should dumb them down whatsoever. They're not even that complicated to begin with.