Remake easier than original? (spoilers)

[Artmugal]

HI all, finished the game recently I spent around 46 hours, one of the best game, visual art, design, sound, music, atmosphere, I wish there was more to explore.

I didnt play the original version when it was released, I wanted a full 3d experience, so I waited all these years, I wonder if point and click version added to the difficulty of the game play? I didn't find it as difficult as i heard. There are only two main puzzles.

This is not a critique but a compliment I felt that much of the island and structures was left underutilized, for an open world game, Most of the time was spent travelling between islands, although travel is the part of the experience and story but if there is an option of fast travel the game would not be as long as it is.

Although this is a different game but an epilogue (destruction of whole island) would've been so much better, a sort of closure because after so many hours spent in that world it just ended like that, ending felt rushed, but still most memorable experience.

PS
Art Director Richard Vander Wende is the key here, no other game look and sound like RIven, even from Cyan.

[Sk1lld]

I really don't think it was easier per say. It's just we knew what to expect that made it seem easier.

[keybounce]

Originally posted by Artmugal:

I wonder if point and click version added to the difficulty of the game play? I didn't find it as difficult as i heard.

... if there is an option of fast travel the game would not be as long as it is.

One of the most frustrating things in both versions is some tiny thing that you need to spot and click on. Some things just really do not stand out on computer graphics.

And, in theory, the starry expanse under the domes is your fast travel system. Just ... Gehn has the technology to make these things point at the right place with the press of a button, why did he make us use rotation like that, with only two directions? No up/down. Like he “exhibits 2-dimensional thinking” :-).

Plus any attempt to use the temple island dome requires running through the rotating room multiple times, no the rails were faster and easier.

[Hellish Fiend]

Originally posted by keybounce:

Gehn has the technology to make these things point at the right place with the press of a button, why did he make us use rotation like that, with only two directions? No up/down. Like he “exhibits 2-dimensional thinking” :-).

Please tell me that's a Wrath of Khan reference!

[Artmugal]

Originally posted by keybounce:

Originally posted by Artmugal:

I wonder if point and click version added to the difficulty of the game play? I didn't find it as difficult as i heard.

... if there is an option of fast travel the game would not be as long as it is.

One of the most frustrating things in both versions is some tiny thing that you need to spot and click on. Some things just really do not stand out on computer graphics.

And, in theory, the starry expanse under the domes is your fast travel system. Just ... Gehn has the technology to make these things point at the right place with the press of a button, why did he make us use rotation like that, with only two directions? No up/down. Like he “exhibits 2-dimensional thinking” :-).

Plus any attempt to use the temple island dome requires running through the rotating room multiple times, no the rails were faster and easier.

That is what I am referring too, the game was designed as point and click not full 3d, I can only imagine how frustrating it would have been to find the button on the side of the rail.

I used rails mostly, the dome sound and looked great but were tedious, there is another problem at the end when you charge all stations it doesn't show any sign of activity beside initial laser and sound, even inside the yellow dome there is no sign of charged activity of 5 stations.

[Hellish Fiend]

Originally posted by Artmugal:

I used rails mostly, the dome sound and looked great but were tedious, there is another problem at the end when you charge all stations it doesn't show any sign of activity beside initial laser and sound, even inside the yellow dome there is no sign of charged activity of 5 stations.

I dont think that's true. There was another player I helped that did not know which of the 5 he was missing, and was able to determine by looking inside the golden dome, which fire marble had not been charged.

[Artmugal]

Originally posted by Hellish Fiend:

Originally posted by Artmugal:

I used rails mostly, the dome sound and looked great but were tedious, there is another problem at the end when you charge all stations it doesn't show any sign of activity beside initial laser and sound, even inside the yellow dome there is no sign of charged activity of 5 stations.

I dont think that's true. There was another player I helped that did not know which of the 5 he was missing, and was able to determine by looking inside the golden dome, which fire marble had not been charged.

May be I missed something, after charging the stations I went to the dome it appeared same maybe the white marbles appeared after charge?

[Diamond Knight]

Marble Puzzle:
The remake straight up gives you the position of the marbles on a 5x5 grid and you just need to figure out which colour goes where.

In the original, before figuring out whihc colour goes where, you had to figure out the position of the marbles yourself on a 25x25 grid by guessing/realising you need to choose the spots where the small domes are. They also give you 6 marbles, one for each colour, instead of 5.

Totem Puzzle:
The remake requires you to learn a new number system and there are 6 instead of 5. This part is harder than the original because you need to do more thinking to learn the second number system. However, overall seeing a bright animal symbol through the lens makes it a lot less ambiguous than the original.

In the original you had to associate a sound with an animal somewhere on the island. If you don't have a good sound memory you will be running past the associated animals without a second thought. One of the animals doesn't make the sound if you "rush". The "totem" you find in Gehn's lab intentionally doesn't make any sound, because obviously it's not broken, fish just don't make any sound. The animals you see also look like animals and not the symbol representations you see in the stone circle. You have to translate an animal looking animal to their "cartoon" animal drawing.

In conclusion, the original is quite a bit harder, not necessarily for good reasons, due to a combination of things being harder, more ambiguous, confusing, deceptive and hidden.

Side note: Lots of people (in a different genre of game) say "Oh it's a dark souls elevator!" Well they did it in the original Riven first.

[Henry]

Ha! Until I read your comment I still assumed the sphere was broken, but I suppose fish not making a (obvious) sound makes sense! I solved it by elimination since it was the only one left.

[Hellish Fiend]

Originally posted by Henry:

Ha! Until I read your comment I still assumed the sphere was broken, but I suppose fish not making a (obvious) sound makes sense! I solved it by elimination since it was the only one left.

My girlfriend at the time (who I played the original Riven with) and I did the same thing. We never even found the clue that showed us the shape of the animal, we just guessed a fish since the journal said the sphere was found in the water, and it was the right guess!

[Artmugal]

Originally posted by Diamond Knight:

Marble Puzzle:
The remake straight up gives you the position of the marbles on a 5x5 grid and you just need to figure out which colour goes where.

In the original, before figuring out whihc colour goes where, you had to figure out the position of the marbles yourself on a 25x25 grid by guessing/realising you need to choose the spots where the small domes are. They also give you 6 marbles, one for each colour, instead of 5.

Totem Puzzle:
The remake requires you to learn a new number system and there are 6 instead of 5. This part is harder than the original because you need to do more thinking to learn the second number system. However, overall seeing a bright animal symbol through the lens makes it a lot less ambiguous than the original.

In the original you had to associate a sound with an animal somewhere on the island. If you don't have a good sound memory you will be running past the associated animals without a second thought. One of the animals doesn't make the sound if you "rush". The "totem" you find in Gehn's lab intentionally doesn't make any sound, because obviously it's not broken, fish just don't make any sound. The animals you see also look like animals and not the symbol representations you see in the stone circle. You have to translate an animal looking animal to their "cartoon" animal drawing.

In conclusion, the original is quite a bit harder, not necessarily for good reasons, due to a combination of things being harder, more ambiguous, confusing, deceptive and hidden.

Side note: Lots of people (in a different genre of game) say "Oh it's a dark souls elevator!" Well they did it in the original Riven first.

Only thing I couldn't figure out was the meter above the marble puzzle, although I took notes of the different marble weight but I didnt know how to measure? the weighing machine was quite vague, and even after consulting hints it wasnt clear.

[Draaloff]

Originally posted by Artmugal:

I didn't find it as difficult as i heard. There are only two main puzzles.

Many of the puzzles were significantly changed, with some completely removed or replaced.
It's definitely easier than the original, and not because of the point-and-click controls.

[Diamond Knight]

Originally posted by Artmugal:

Originally posted by Diamond Knight:

Marble Puzzle:
The remake straight up gives you the position of the marbles on a 5x5 grid and you just need to figure out which colour goes where.

In the original, before figuring out whihc colour goes where, you had to figure out the position of the marbles yourself on a 25x25 grid by guessing/realising you need to choose the spots where the small domes are. They also give you 6 marbles, one for each colour, instead of 5.

Totem Puzzle:
The remake requires you to learn a new number system and there are 6 instead of 5. This part is harder than the original because you need to do more thinking to learn the second number system. However, overall seeing a bright animal symbol through the lens makes it a lot less ambiguous than the original.

In the original you had to associate a sound with an animal somewhere on the island. If you don't have a good sound memory you will be running past the associated animals without a second thought. One of the animals doesn't make the sound if you "rush". The "totem" you find in Gehn's lab intentionally doesn't make any sound, because obviously it's not broken, fish just don't make any sound. The animals you see also look like animals and not the symbol representations you see in the stone circle. You have to translate an animal looking animal to their "cartoon" animal drawing.

In conclusion, the original is quite a bit harder, not necessarily for good reasons, due to a combination of things being harder, more ambiguous, confusing, deceptive and hidden.

Side note: Lots of people (in a different genre of game) say "Oh it's a dark souls elevator!" Well they did it in the original Riven first.

Only thing I couldn't figure out was the meter above the marble puzzle, although I took notes of the different marble weight but I didnt know how to measure? the weighing machine was quite vague, and even after consulting hints it wasnt clear.

The note tells you that each colour has a different strike force value, offset from a base value. The scale gives you the base value. It has a meter to tell you if you're too low or high. The offset (+, -) is mentioned in the same note in rivinese numbers, each corresponding to its own island symbol. You'll have to understand how the rivinese number system works to get numbers 10 and up.

When you add or subtract the value from your base strike force value you got from the scale, you get a series of numbers. Figuring out each symbol's associative colour is unnecessary as the meter above the marble puzzle does not let you slide sliders past each other. The meter only allows one sequence of colours.

For completeness, to find out which colour which value is, you need to translate the symbol to its corresponding colour which you can learn in the survey island underwater surveillance chamber thing.

[Scarrab]

I'm glad to see others recognizing the objective fact that the remake is easier than the original. There are many other reasons as well, aside from those already stated.

[Draaloff]

Originally posted by Scarrab:

I'm glad to see others recognizing the objective fact that the remake is easier than the original. There are many other reasons as well, aside from those already stated.

Indeed. Some parts can be explained as "it wouldn't work well in VR", but beyond that it's simply an easier game with worse progression.
While I wouldn't call it a bad game, I can't recommend it over the original.

[Hellish Fiend]

Originally posted by Draaloff:

I can't recommend it over the original.

As an initial experience, I might have to agree. As much as I adore the remake (I gave it a 10/10), if the goal for someone new to the game was to play both titles, I would have to insist on playing the original first. The original still holds up remarkably well. But if played *after* the remake, the original's puzzles might feel a bit too esoteric (even though they aren't!) by comparison.

What made the environmental "puzzles" in the original so great was that you were piecing together what you needed to solve them while exploring the amazing environments for the first time, and that's lost if you've played the remake first. But, the original followed by the remake?

I hope that the staff hit by the recent layoffs have success finding more work in the near future.