Deploy vs. Overtake

[Finarfin]

What tactical situations make a difference to which ERS mode you use? Does one drain the battery quicker than the other?

[Sandbox170]

Deploy works at every ERS working point in a track.
Overtake works only behind other car targeted a overtaking.

So Deploy is fastest and burns 4MJ a lap.
Overtake is faster and burns less than 4MJ a lap.

[mauzeer]

Overtake is more aggressive command. I usually start overtaking with overtake, then once in position, switch to deploy...

[Maruricki]

Originally posted by mauzeer:

Overtake is more aggressive command. I usually start overtaking with overtake, then once in position, switch to deploy...

yep i'm in the same boat

[Goul]

Overtake is just for that, overtaking. It also makes the driver a wee bit more aggressive to make the overtake happen. There are some Points on the Track where Driver would use ERS despite not at a normal ERS usage point, like, a long strait while beside a car.

Deplay is only used at normal ERS usage Points, but, uses more ERS. Mainly used together with maximum Push Driving and fuel usage to drive away from other Cars out of DRS range ( 1 second)

[Gorlos]

deploy is overkill. Overtake makes boost to last longer.

[udtojan95]

Deploy is focussing on lap time. Its like neutral, it uses ERS at normal points that u use just more.
Overtake will use very much ESR at just one point, at the overtake spot.

[vvrcic1]

but how do you replen your battery after using 4mj without having every ai undo what you just did in them modes considering maths wise you would have to harvest or normal for at least 2 laps or more to regain a full battery? i rarely touch ers out of normal because i end up with a depleted battery and have to spend 3 or more laps getting my battery back.

[Fire_Spy]

I really don't understand how ERS works, this thread has answered a couple of questions, So using ERS in neutral still uses it? But not as much as deploy? I have noticed that if you switch it to recharge that the AI teams seem to catch you up easy, yet neutral seems to make it so you can maintain your position.

[Sandbox170]

Originally posted by vvrcic1:

but how do you replen your battery after using 4mj without having every ai undo what you just did in them modes considering maths wise you would have to harvest or normal for at least 2 laps or more to regain a full battery? i rarely touch ers out of normal because i end up with a depleted battery and have to spend 3 or more laps getting my battery back.

* Define
A: lab time decreasing between one Deploy lab and one Neutral lab
B: lab time increasing between one Neutral lab and one Harvest lab

If a track is generally

1. 2*A > 4*B
Every 2 Deploy + 4 Harvest labs you get lab time benefit.
So, it's good to use and recharge ERS every possible moment.

2. 2*A < 4*B
Every 2 Deploy + 4 Harvest labs you get a lab time loss.
It mean that you get lab time loss every full battery recharging without any supportable situation, your car behind other cars in DRS time(<1sec).

In this case the Neutral setting of ERS is better option after consuming all battery.

[vvrcic1]

yeah I gave up on f1 as a player many moons ago, I have been solely a mm player for years. I have zero knowledge of the tracks that are now in f1 which means I have zero information on how to go about my ers usage, and after the ai just kicking my behind due to ers mistakes by myself I have actually got bored and went back to MM.

For a new user to the game/franchise this ers mechanic is just way too complicated.

[vvrcic1]

Originally posted by Sandbox170:

Originally posted by vvrcic1:

but how do you replen your battery after using 4mj without having every ai undo what you just did in them modes considering maths wise you would have to harvest or normal for at least 2 laps or more to regain a full battery? i rarely touch ers out of normal because i end up with a depleted battery and have to spend 3 or more laps getting my battery back.

* Define
A: lab time decreasing between one Deploy lab and one Neutral lab
B: lab time increasing between one Neutral lab and one Harvest lab

If a track is generally

1. 2*A > 4*B
Every 2 Deploy + 4 Harvest labs you get lab time benefit.
So, it's good to use and recharge ERS every possible moment.

2. 2*A < 4*B
Every 2 Deploy + 4 Harvest labs you get a lab time loss.
It mean that you get lab time loss every full battery recharging without any supportable situation, your car behind other cars in DRS time(<1sec).

In this case the Neutral setting of ERS is better option after consuming all battery.

That actually makes a lot of sense now I read it again, number 2 should work quite well being a lower team as I can farm the drs more often.

[EngineR]

I think you should not see it this way.

Of course ERS is used in neutral mode but it is then used in a way that doesn't deplete or recharge the battery on the long run.

If you decide to deploy, it will just use more ERS than normal until battery is depleted.

The purpose of that is not to try to gain particular benefits in terms of lap time on the long run, but to help you to achieve an highest short term performance because you need that extra performance at that precise moment for a specific reason, after which you won't need it anymore.

For example if you want to set the best lap of the race. Or catch up an opponent until you get in the DRS zone. Or help an overtake since overtaking requires not just to be a little faster than the car behind, but generally to be much faster than this car even if for a very limited period of time (DRS also help with that obviously).

For example if you are struggling to catch up with the car in front of you who desesperately remains 2 seconds ahead of you because you have both the same speed (lap times) approximately, you can deploy the ERS to reduce that gap to less than 1 seconde so that you enter the DRS zone. Then you can spend a few lap into that zone to harvest back you ERS battery while maintaining the gap inferior to 1 sec thanks to the DRS. Then you use the DRS to overtake that car and potentially re-use the ERS to jump to the next car (if close enough) or just to make sure the can behind doesn't stay in your DRS zone (yes the IA could use it's own ERS to defend against that but the IA is too stupid to make that lol).

[Gorlos]

Always keep your battery charged and normal loads it if not drained. When u wanna overtake/get better laps use overtake.

[EngineR]

Now regarding overtake VS deploy mode, to be honest I'm not so convinced about the practicality of using overtake mode so efficiently.

Normally it is aimed at helping to overtake during the straights (which are indeed the best place to do that...) but in practice I never had such a great feeling in this mode.

The reason is that when you use the deploy mode, your driver will follow from very close the car in front in turns preceeding the straight where you want to try to overtake. Especially if you are also ready to temporarily set tyre and/or fuel consumption to high values during those turns. Then the fact that your driver is so close to the front driver at the beginning of the straight will encourage your driver to take an alternative line than the driver in front. Then the deploy mode is generally powerful enough to help you to close the remaining gap during the straight, also potentially to secure your overtake during the turn following the straight.

Of course you could combine mode by using deploy a few turns before the straight, then switch it to overtake during the straight. But it will consume your ERS very fast.

I think you have to try many options to see what works best for you.

But honestly in my games I have a much stronger feeling with the deploy mode than with the overtake mode, even when it comes to overtaking...

[Sandbox170]

Originally posted by vvrcic1:

Originally posted by Sandbox170:

* Define
A: lab time decreasing between one Deploy lab and one Neutral lab
B: lab time increasing between one Neutral lab and one Harvest lab

If a track is generally

1. 2*A > 4*B
Every 2 Deploy + 4 Harvest labs you get lab time benefit.
So, it's good to use and recharge ERS every possible moment.

2. 2*A < 4*B
Every 2 Deploy + 4 Harvest labs you get a lab time loss.
It mean that you get lab time loss every full battery recharging without any supportable situation, your car behind other cars in DRS time(<1sec).

In this case the Neutral setting of ERS is better option after consuming all battery.

That actually makes a lot of sense now I read it again, number 2 should work quite well being a lower team as I can farm the drs more often.

I run the Williams with Albon and Doohan in 2024 Season. Our car performance is 6th in team, but the fast corner downforce is 1~2nd.

I got some rough tests at the Suzuka track in practice session 3.

With car setting 100% and Soft tyre, I checked Albon's lab times of 3 ERS options(Deploy, Neutral, Harvest).

• Deploy(50% energy use): 1:29.256(-0.801)
  
• Neutral(25% energy use): 1:30.057
  
• Harvest(25% energy harvest): 1:30.412(+0.355)

In 2 Deploy labs and 4 Harvest labs I would get -0.182 time benefit to 6 Neutral labs.
2*A + 4*B = (-)1.602 + 1.420 = -0.182

Next, I used a combination of ERS option in 1 lab.

Corner 1~7: Harvest
Corner 8~14: Neutral
Corner 15~18: Deploy

In two labs(it was just a rough test ^^;)

• Lab 1(12% energy use): 1:29.763
  
• Lab 2(11% energy use): 1:29.667

Average lab time is 1:29.763(-0.294 to Neutral), average ERS energy use is 11.5%.

In 100% ERS battery, I could use a set of 8 Deploy labs and 4 Harvest labs.
And the lab time benefit is -0.932 in 1 set(12 labs).

It's 0.568 faster than 2 set(12 labs) of 2 Deploy labs and 4 Harvest labs.

Using ERS combination through the race, I got 2nd(Doohan) and 4th(Albon, he was spin in lab 6 then downed to 20th) in Suzuka.

I think this ERS trick(?) works some tracks for lower performance teams.