AI unaffected by tyre degradation

[Running]

I just had AI drivers blow past me on 25% softs and open up a 4+ second lead while I was driving on 85% mediums. I'm guessing that much like every other racing game, the AI isn't actually affected by tyre degradation or fuel consumption. Kind of ruins the strategy since the AI can run on carcasses and still crush you.

[Andy]

It defiantly is. Did a race in the latest patch where they were getting away from me on softs with me on hard. And, as they got closer to thier pit time they started to come back towards me.
Could be there are weird quirks related to the track with tire compounds.
We've certainly seen track specific fuel bugs.

[Running]

Originally posted by Andy:

It defiantly is. Did a race in the latest patch where they were getting away from me on softs with me on hard. And, as they got closer to thier pit time they started to come back towards me.
Could be there are weird quirks related to the track with tire compounds.
We've certainly seen track specific fuel bugs.

It just sucks because I know I'd be losing time on those tyres. This problem cost me 4 positions and a podium finish because the AI can push on dead tyres while I can push on fresh tyres and not only lose a lead, but fall behind. It makes no sense to me, especially when the falloff shows that I should be significantly faster. That makes me believe that the AI is not actually affected by tyre wear in terms of timing. It appears to only affect when the AI decides to pit

[SailMan]

Originally posted by Andy:

It defiantly is. Did a race in the latest patch where they were getting away from me on softs with me on hard. And, as they got closer to thier pit time they started to come back towards me.
Could be there are weird quirks related to the track with tire compounds.
We've certainly seen track specific fuel bugs.

Yes. That is the whole point of different tyres. Nothing wrong here. You are on hards (slowest tyre), while the others are on softs (fastest). So, yes, naturally they will speed past you at the start. As their tyres get older, they lose their efficiency and become slower. There comes a point where if they continue on those they will become slower than yours, even if both tyres are same age.

The topic start's issue is opposite of yours however.

Originally posted by Running:

I just had AI drivers blow past me on 25% softs and open up a 4+ second lead while I was driving on 85% mediums. I'm guessing that much like every other racing game, the AI isn't actually affected by tyre degradation or fuel consumption. Kind of ruins the strategy since the AI can run on carcasses and still crush you.

I honestly haven't run into this situation. I have generally seen the AIs change their tyres when they get close to 30%. Only time they go past it is if its last lap or two.

So, not having seen this behaviour in 4-5 seasons of my game, I cannot explain this behaviour in your game. I am assuming you didn't have damages, didn't have "Avoid kerbs", "Drive in fresh air", "Block people behind", engine/gearbox issues etc.. turned on or anything right? Cause I have sometimes left those settings in and that has slowed my drivers down significantly.
That still doesn't explain why AI was on 25% tyres. Even at 25%, the AI might have been slow, but you were much slower.
If you still have the game/race, you can check your/their laptimes throughout to try and understand what is going on, maybe.

That being said, its also highly likely you ran into a bug.

[Andy]

Originally posted by SailMan:

The topic start's issue is opposite of yours however.

What? I didn't describe an issue. But, highlighted my experience that shows what the OP said

AI unaffected by tyre degradation

Wasn't typical across the whole game.

[Running]

Originally posted by SailMan:

Originally posted by Andy:

It defiantly is. Did a race in the latest patch where they were getting away from me on softs with me on hard. And, as they got closer to thier pit time they started to come back towards me.
Could be there are weird quirks related to the track with tire compounds.
We've certainly seen track specific fuel bugs.

Yes. That is the whole point of different tyres. Nothing wrong here. You are on hards (slowest tyre), while the others are on softs (fastest). So, yes, naturally they will speed past you at the start. As their tyres get older, they lose their efficiency and become slower. There comes a point where if they continue on those they will become slower than yours, even if both tyres are same age.

The topic start's issue is opposite of yours however.

Originally posted by Running:

I just had AI drivers blow past me on 25% softs and open up a 4+ second lead while I was driving on 85% mediums. I'm guessing that much like every other racing game, the AI isn't actually affected by tyre degradation or fuel consumption. Kind of ruins the strategy since the AI can run on carcasses and still crush you.

I honestly haven't run into this situation. I have generally seen the AIs change their tyres when they get close to 30%. Only time they go past it is if its last lap or two.

So, not having seen this behaviour in 4-5 seasons of my game, I cannot explain this behaviour in your game. I am assuming you didn't have damages, didn't have "Avoid kerbs", "Drive in fresh air", "Block people behind", engine/gearbox issues etc.. turned on or anything right? Cause I have sometimes left those settings in and that has slowed my drivers down significantly.
That still doesn't explain why AI was on 25% tyres. Even at 25%, the AI might have been slow, but you were much slower.
If you still have the game/race, you can check your/their laptimes throughout to try and understand what is going on, maybe.

That being said, its also highly likely you ran into a bug.

I don't think the problem is the tyres themselves, I think its the AI behavior and the speed they carry on tyres that should have fallen off. I think the tyre %'s only affect the AI's pit decisions unlike how %'s affect the player. The player is hurt by tyre falloff below 35%, the AI appears to be unaffected by tire falloff completely

[SailMan]

Originally posted by Andy:

What? I didn't describe an issue. But, highlighted my experience that shows what the OP said

What I meant to say is that OP's experience in the game can be classified as a bug. Your experience in the game as you described it, is an expected behaviour. What you experienced is exactly how it should work, and how the IRL tyres work.

Infact, re-reading your experience (Andy) suggests that the AI's behaviour as tyres fall off changes. They become slower the longer they stay on a tyre. This is NOT what the OP is seeing.
So far, based on what I have been seeing in my games, the AI does seem to go slower the longer they stay on a set of tyres.

I haven't really paid much attention to what % mark they start decreasing significantly.

[SonicsLV]

Originally posted by Running:

I don't think the problem is the tyres themselves, I think its the AI behavior and the speed they carry on tyres that should have fallen off. I think the tyre %'s only affect the AI's pit decisions unlike how %'s affect the player. The player is hurt by tyre falloff below 35%, the AI appears to be unaffected by tire falloff completely

Not in my experience. On rare occasion AI drop below 50%, they indeed going slower. Rare occasion since the AI now often pit before reaching 50%.

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Running:

Originally posted by SailMan:

Yes. That is the whole point of different tyres. Nothing wrong here. You are on hards (slowest tyre), while the others are on softs (fastest). So, yes, naturally they will speed past you at the start. As their tyres get older, they lose their efficiency and become slower. There comes a point where if they continue on those they will become slower than yours, even if both tyres are same age.

The topic start's issue is opposite of yours however.


I honestly haven't run into this situation. I have generally seen the AIs change their tyres when they get close to 30%. Only time they go past it is if its last lap or two.

So, not having seen this behaviour in 4-5 seasons of my game, I cannot explain this behaviour in your game. I am assuming you didn't have damages, didn't have "Avoid kerbs", "Drive in fresh air", "Block people behind", engine/gearbox issues etc.. turned on or anything right? Cause I have sometimes left those settings in and that has slowed my drivers down significantly.
That still doesn't explain why AI was on 25% tyres. Even at 25%, the AI might have been slow, but you were much slower.
If you still have the game/race, you can check your/their laptimes throughout to try and understand what is going on, maybe.

That being said, its also highly likely you ran into a bug.

I don't think the problem is the tyres themselves, I think its the AI behavior and the speed they carry on tyres that should have fallen off. I think the tyre %'s only affect the AI's pit decisions unlike how %'s affect the player. The player is hurt by tyre falloff below 35%, the AI appears to be unaffected by tire falloff completely

I haven't played 1.9 yet, But in 1.8 AI was affected by tyrewear for sure. Some races they run their tyres low on the last stint and their laptimes tank bigtime and I gain almost a second per lap towards the end. When we earlier while their softs were still in good shape had similar laptimes.

[saberhagen83]

Not my experience at all. The AI seems to be just as affected by tyrewear as the player is. Just raced in Belgium and after a 2nd SC, Ocon (my driver) pitted onto mediums with like 16 laps left or something like that. I was afraid the softs wouldn't last, especially since they were already a bit worn. Hamilton pitted as well and went onto the softs. He got held up in traffic and, as a result, Ocon was held up behind Hamilton. Fast forward a bit and all of a sudden Ocon on a fresher set of mediums went by Hamilton and started to get by a few long runners on the hards as well. Hamilton's softs were going off completely at the last part of the race and fell back and seconds off of Ocon. His gamble, as it was, did not pay off.

Bottas had a howler and didn't pit under any of the SC events and was on like 22% when he finally did pit. Needless to say, his race was screwed. ;) I will say however that the AI doesn't seem to push as I would, but rather are just simply faster even on everything standard. It seems impossible to get past without pushing, which means my drivers tyrewear is always higher compared to a AI on same set of tires at the same point in the race.

Also Alonso finished the race under 30% and was under pressure from Verstappen on fresher hards. You CAN stay ahead with critical tyrewear as well compared to the AI. Just probably not for a few laps.

[nh2008]

I don't think the problem is the tyres themselves, I think its the AI behavior and the speed they carry on tyres that should have fallen off. I think the tyre %'s only affect the AI's pit decisions unlike how %'s affect the player. The player is hurt by tyre falloff below 35%, the AI appears to be unaffected by tire falloff completely [/quote]

I haven't played 1.9 yet, But in 1.8 AI was affected by tyrewear for sure. Some races they run their tyres low on the last stint and their laptimes tank bigtime and I gain almost a second per lap towards the end. When we earlier while their softs were still in good shape had similar laptimes. [/quote]


Yes it was in 1.8, but after the hotfix something has changed definitely.

Below 30% the AI's cars' pace don't drop unfortunately.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2872749872

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2872749726

See Bottas (25%) and Leclerc (27%), they can keep up the pace easily.

[SailMan]

Originally posted by nh2008:

See Bottas (25%) and Leclerc (27%), they can keep up the pace easily.

Lots of reasons for this:

• They are within 1 second of cars ahead (you). Thus, they can easily catch up on the drs sections.
  
• Relative performances of the cars. Maybe their cars are faster than yours, so they are able to overcome the drop off their tyres by a certain bit.
  
• Just because a tyre is below 30% doesn't mean that they stop doing their job. The tyre drops off in performance, but that drop off isn't significant at all times. You are also pretty low on tyre %, so its hard to see the difference.
  
• Tyre degradation is track dependent, weather dependent etc... The drop off in Bahrain (your screenshot) may not be as significant as elsewhere. Also, the drop off for different compounds is not the same on every track. For instance, Bahrain might allow softs to go until 25% before they start losing significant time, while in Jeddah the same softs will lose time after hitting 60%. This is also seen IRL.

The last bullet point you can tell in the game by checking the times and fall off during qualifying. Do one run on fresh softs at the start. Some tracks, when your car returns, the soft will be at 88%. On other tracks, it will be at 80% or 75%.
On some tracks, I have managed to do 3 runs on the same set and only losing 2-3 tenths by the end of 3rd run.

[Running]

Originally posted by saberhagen83:

Not my experience at all. The AI seems to be just as affected by tyrewear as the player is. Just raced in Belgium and after a 2nd SC, Ocon (my driver) pitted onto mediums with like 16 laps left or something like that. I was afraid the softs wouldn't last, especially since they were already a bit worn. Hamilton pitted as well and went onto the softs. He got held up in traffic and, as a result, Ocon was held up behind Hamilton. Fast forward a bit and all of a sudden Ocon on a fresher set of mediums went by Hamilton and started to get by a few long runners on the hards as well. Hamilton's softs were going off completely at the last part of the race and fell back and seconds off of Ocon. His gamble, as it was, did not pay off.

Bottas had a howler and didn't pit under any of the SC events and was on like 22% when he finally did pit. Needless to say, his race was screwed. ;) I will say however that the AI doesn't seem to push as I would, but rather are just simply faster even on everything standard. It seems impossible to get past without pushing, which means my drivers tyrewear is always higher compared to a AI on same set of tires at the same point in the race.

Also Alonso finished the race under 30% and was under pressure from Verstappen on fresher hards. You CAN stay ahead with critical tyrewear as well compared to the AI. Just probably not for a few laps.

Yeah, but I experienced the AI close a 3 second gap and build a 4 second lead on me on tires that should not have been able to get lap times like that. It really makes me not want to play the game because I feel like no matter what I do, the AI can always pull unrealistic lap times and screw me out of a podium

[Running]

Originally posted by SailMan:

Originally posted by nh2008:

See Bottas (25%) and Leclerc (27%), they can keep up the pace easily.

Lots of reasons for this:

• They are within 1 second of cars ahead (you). Thus, they can easily catch up on the drs sections.
  
• Relative performances of the cars. Maybe their cars are faster than yours, so they are able to overcome the drop off their tyres by a certain bit.
  
• Just because a tyre is below 30% doesn't mean that they stop doing their job. The tyre drops off in performance, but that drop off isn't significant at all times. You are also pretty low on tyre %, so its hard to see the difference.
  
• Tyre degradation is track dependent, weather dependent etc... The drop off in Bahrain (your screenshot) may not be as significant as elsewhere. Also, the drop off for different compounds is not the same on every track. For instance, Bahrain might allow softs to go until 25% before they start losing significant time, while in Jeddah the same softs will lose time after hitting 60%. This is also seen IRL.

The last bullet point you can tell in the game by checking the times and fall off during qualifying. Do one run on fresh softs at the start. Some tracks, when your car returns, the soft will be at 88%. On other tracks, it will be at 80% or 75%.
On some tracks, I have managed to do 3 runs on the same set and only losing 2-3 tenths by the end of 3rd run.

The problem is that tire falloff does not affect the AI the same way it affects the player. Even playing as a top team like Ferrari or Red Bull, I've noticed that the AI cars can keep or exceed pace regardless of tire condition. I know for a fact that my drivers experience significant lap time decreases on critical tires. However, it seems that the AI does not experience these lap time decreases.

My belief is that its a mechanism to keep the game competitive so the player is challenged every race.

[nh2008]

Originally posted by SailMan:

Originally posted by nh2008:

See Bottas (25%) and Leclerc (27%), they can keep up the pace easily.

Lots of reasons for this:

• They are within 1 second of cars ahead (you). Thus, they can easily catch up on the drs sections.
  
• Relative performances of the cars. Maybe their cars are faster than yours, so they are able to overcome the drop off their tyres by a certain bit.
  
• Just because a tyre is below 30% doesn't mean that they stop doing their job. The tyre drops off in performance, but that drop off isn't significant at all times. You are also pretty low on tyre %, so its hard to see the difference.
  
• Tyre degradation is track dependent, weather dependent etc... The drop off in Bahrain (your screenshot) may not be as significant as elsewhere. Also, the drop off for different compounds is not the same on every track. For instance, Bahrain might allow softs to go until 25% before they start losing significant time, while in Jeddah the same softs will lose time after hitting 60%. This is also seen IRL.

The last bullet point you can tell in the game by checking the times and fall off during qualifying. Do one run on fresh softs at the start. Some tracks, when your car returns, the soft will be at 88%. On other tracks, it will be at 80% or 75%.
On some tracks, I have managed to do 3 runs on the same set and only losing 2-3 tenths by the end of 3rd run.

At Jeddah at the end of the race I was able to push below 30. So I take this. Though a bit weird for me.

[ggmiha48]

i write this when game go out, nothing changed...i deleted game.. they dont care about this... AI on 40 laps old tyre is faster then me on newest tyre...funny... they dont watch f1...