Tyre performance and startegy

[Ablomis]

People have written about it but want to make sure it is clearly visualized. Here is the problem:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2855691746
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2855691728
Strategy using soft tyres is 8 seconds slower than the one using hard tyre. Considering that extra stop is a risk due to traffic etc it should be the other way around.

[TyCobb]

No clue how that time is calculated, but 1 stop will always be faster than a 2 stop strategy on paper. I don't know what track you are at, but you're looking on average 25 seconds to pit. Softs will not take enough time off a lap to award a free a pit stop.

[Ablomis]

Originally posted by TyCobb:

No clue how that time is calculated, but 1 stop will always be faster than a 2 stop strategy on paper. I don't know what track you are at, but you're looking on average 25 seconds to pit. Softs will not take enough time off a lap to award a free a pit stop.

No. Difference between compounds should be 0.8-1 second. While in game it is 0.s (What?!)
Considering that I run 40 laps on Soft it should be ~32-40 seconds faster than medium, less 25 seconds gives us 7-15 second faster race on softs.

This is back of the envelope calculations, that does not include traffic etc. but it gives the idea. If it was the way you say, nobody would use 2 stop strategy at all. Ever.

[TyCobb]

Like I said, it depends on the track. I am currently at Montreal's Gilles-Villenueve. Time difference between compounds are as follows on it's recorded avg lap in the track's report screen:

Soft: 1:23.916
Medium: 1:23.913
Hard: 1:24.007

It'll take 11 laps to achieve a 1 second difference between the compound (soft/hard)

[AoD_lexandro]

Not all soft tyres are the same tyres. There are 5 compounds, and three are selected for the race weekend. Your "soft" tyre in one country is a "medium" in another. and so forth. Plus different surfaces have different levels of abrasion. So as said above its entirely track dependent

[Ablomis]

Originally posted by TyCobb:

Like I said, it depends on the track. I am currently at Montreal's Gilles-Villenueve. Time difference between compounds are as follows on it's recorded avg lap in the track's report screen:

Soft: 1:23.916
Medium: 1:23.913
Hard: 1:24.007

It'll take 11 laps to achieve a 1 second difference between the compound (soft/hard)

It doesnt bother you that your soft is slower than hard?
And again, the difference between compounds should be ~0.5-1 second give or take:
"Pirelli believe that the performance gaps between their compounds stand at around 0.8-1 second, rather than 0.5s as expected. "

This is how they design the tyres. 0.1 is insanely low.

[Ablomis]

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

Not all soft tyres are the same tyres. There are 5 compounds, and three are selected for the race weekend. Your "soft" tyre in one country is a "medium" in another. and so forth. Plus different surfaces have different levels of abrasion. So as said above its entirely track dependent

So? The gaps between any compounds C1/C2, or C2/C3 still should be MUCH larger than currently in game.

[TyCobb]

Let's not throw random quotes out without some context ;)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/pirelli-surprised-tyre-time-gaps

"The expectation was 0.5 seconds per lap, it’s probably between 0.8 and one second per lap,” said Isola.

The only exception was between the two softest compounds, the C4 and the C5, where Pirelli did not see much of a difference at all. That though was more so as a result of the conditions in Bahrain."

Back to the actual point though.

1 second is an arbitrary number and meaningless without a track. Some tracks are long, some are short, some have tons of really tough turns, bad surfaces, etc. etc.

1 second for one track could be .25s for another. Like AoD_lexandro said, the tires are not all of the same. One soft giving you 1 second at one track is potentially not the same soft compound giving worse results at another. Soft/Medium/Hard are just easy names. One week a soft is a C5 while the next it's a C3.

[Ablomis]

Originally posted by TyCobb:

Let's not throw random quotes out without some context ;)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/pirelli-surprised-tyre-time-gaps

"The expectation was 0.5 seconds per lap, it’s probably between 0.8 and one second per lap,” said Isola.

The only exception was between the two softest compounds, the C4 and the C5, where Pirelli did not see much of a difference at all. That though was more so as a result of the conditions in Bahrain."

Back to the actual point though.

1 second is an arbitrary number and meaningless without a track. Some tracks are long, some are short, some have tons of really tough turns, bad surfaces, etc. etc.

1 second for one track could be .25s for another. Like AoD_lexandro said, the tires are not all of the same. One soft giving you 1 second at one track is potentially not the same soft compound giving worse results at another. Soft/Medium/Hard are just easy names. One week a soft is a C5 while the next it's a C3.

What you are doing here is making an abstract statement "every track is different", while avoiding the point, that in game ON ALL TRACKS the difference is 0.1 between compounds which is ABSOLUTELY UNREALISTIC.

Here is another source from 2019. https://maxf1.net/en/pirelli-reveals-2019-f1-compounds-pace-difference/

The point here is not that it should be exactly 1 second, but that 0.1 second is completely wrong and pretty much breaks all strategy.

In race the same car on hard easily paces the same as a car on softs. It doesnt make any sense.

[AoD_lexandro]

Unless I am mistaken the numbers you are looking for tyre life is the per lap degradation not the compound variation per lap. Degradation is how much lap time it loses over its lifespan, compound variation is the speed differential between soft/hard.

[TyCobb]

Originally posted by Ablomis:

In race the same car on hard easily paces the same as a car on softs. It doesnt make any sense.

This I agree with. I can't tell if it's a bug or actually just not modeled. I've seen nothing that tells me the wear, compound, or freshness in a race actually matters. All that actually seems to matter is to make sure you keep the condition above 30% or else you risk RNGesus rolling more dice every turn.

[Ablomis]

Originally posted by AoD_lexandro:

Unless I am mistaken the numbers you are looking for tyre life is the per lap degradation not the compound variation per lap. Degradation is how much lap time it loses over its lifespan, compound variation is the speed differential between soft/hard.

On the circuit overview it is tyre deg, and on tyre selection screen it actually shows you lap time difference when you hover over compound: Currently fitted vs new.

[Ablomis]

Originally posted by TyCobb:

Originally posted by Ablomis:

In race the same car on hard easily paces the same as a car on softs. It doesnt make any sense.

This I agree with. I can't tell if it's a bug or actually just not modeled. I've seen nothing that tells me the wear, compound, or freshness in a race actually matters. All that actually seems to matter is to make sure you keep the condition above 30% or else you risk RNGesus rolling more dice every turn.

This is because the difference is so small that if you are in drs range on hard behind the car on soft the tyre makes no difference:

IRL: Soft vs Hard let's assume ~1.5s difference per lap - you just pull away almost immediately. Even at 1s difference.
In Game: 0.2s difference per lap - drs eats all the advanteg

[TyCobb]

Originally posted by Ablomis:

Originally posted by TyCobb:

This I agree with. I can't tell if it's a bug or actually just not modeled. I've seen nothing that tells me the wear, compound, or freshness in a race actually matters. All that actually seems to matter is to make sure you keep the condition above 30% or else you risk RNGesus rolling more dice every turn.

This is because the difference is so small that if you are in drs range on hard behind the car on soft the tyre makes no difference.

Take the Tyre selection screen with a grain of salt. It's based on what your current tire is and what your best lap time was on your current tires. I didn't run Hards in my current practice session, but shows as 3 seconds faster than my fastest lap (I run in conservation during practices) and it still only says 0.1s. But if I hover over used Mediums, my lap time will go +8.4s from my current 100% softs I have selected.

[TyCobb]

Here's the actual tire information for the whatever track you are at in the reports screen. This is the information you should be able to go off of in general.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2855713991

[Žviks]

Originally posted by TyCobb:

Like I said, it depends on the track. I am currently at Montreal's Gilles-Villenueve. Time difference between compounds are as follows on it's recorded avg lap in the track's report screen:

Soft: 1:23.916
Medium: 1:23.913
Hard: 1:24.007

It'll take 11 laps to achieve a 1 second difference between the compound (soft/hard)

Pretty sure those are average times over a full stint rather than lap by lap times.