How terrible was the T-80?

[NvMe 令]

I know all Russian tanks have a tendency to explode, have paper armour and make the turret go into the atmosphere,etc but recently after playing a while i noticed that even M60s are extremely dangerous, if not outright penetrating minor glancing blows would disable the weapon one way or another.

Ive heard a lot about how Russian tanks have very good hull down angles but i find myself in a lot of situations where the main gun wont fire because its depressed too low and when i expose myself a little bit i instantly get penned by a M60 and my commander goes into space. How do you shoot at tanks that are in flat uneven surfaces with lots of odd angles? Almost all of my shots just hit the ground short.

On a unrelated note, the amount of dust and sand kicked up during fighting can get intense and it basically acts like a smokescreen more often for the enemy which they can fire perfectly fine while the laser rangefinder dosent seem to work as well when trying to lase something covered in dust. Waiting for the dust to settle is not an option since enemy armour get to fire as if it isnt there at all.

[xtremist]

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

I know all Russian tanks have a tendency to explode, have paper armour and make the turret go into the atmosphere,etc but recently after playing a while i noticed that even M60s are extremely dangerous, if not outright penetrating minor glancing blows would disable the weapon one way or another.

Ive heard a lot about how Russian tanks have very good hull down angles but i find myself in a lot of situations where the main gun wont fire because its depressed too low and when i expode myself a little bit i instantly get penned by a M60 and my commander goes into space. How do you shoot at tanks that are in flat uneven surfaces with lots of odd angles? Almost all of my shots just hit the ground short.

On a unrelated note, the amount of dust and sand kicked up during fighting can get intense and it basically acts like a smokescreen more often for the enemy which they can fire perfectly fine while the laser rangefinder dosent seem to work as well when trying to lase something covered in dust. Waiting for the dust to settle is not an option since enemy armour get to fire as if it isnt there at all.

Aim for lower glacis, and change your position often, it helps with the dust, and they won't zero you in.

[NvMe 令]

What if the battle is at long range (2k+) in an open area? In those cases i tend to move around but that usually means i just get hit while moving especially by multiple enemies.

At long range changing spots dont help as much since enemies will like to sit still and fire on the spot kicking a whole sandstorm around the group which makes it fantastic to locating enemies when you are caught unaware but frustrating when they hit you from inside the cloud

[xtremist]

Originally posted by xtremist:

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

What if the battle is at long range (2k+) in an open area? In those cases i tend to move around but that usually means i just get hit while moving especially by multiple enemies.

At long range changing spots dont help as much since enemies will like to sit still and fire on the spot kicking a whole sandstorm around the group which makes it fantastic to locating enemies when you are caught unaware but frustrating when they hit you from inside the cloud

At long range a weaker enemy (M60) is easy money, if you are against numerous M1s, than you must flank them. In this theatre you can flank any position within 10 minutes.

[SMB.96]

The T-80 is the best tank in the game after the M1/M1IP. I haven`t experienced anything like you said? M60 is easy prey

[NvMe 令]

I am aware that the T80 in game is meant to be the Russian counterpart to the M1 and during my early dozen of hours it indeed extremely powerful when I was doing all of the red instant missions.

But when I played campaign as the T80 it felt like M60s were penning me left and right even as I played into its strengths (hull down, front towards enemy,etc). Even what appears to be slight glancing blows to the side at odd angles is enough to cook off the auto loader, shots to the turret is usually enough to penetrate if not disable the barrel/cannon.

I've always reviewed the end of mission X ray cannon hits and sometimes the front armour stops a round most of the time but it just goes straight through. Same can’t be said for hits to the turret and sides even at low angles. A common case for me is to lase a M60, we both lock into each other and I get the first shot off because of my rangefinder (I usually aim for center of mass either on the turret or in the front areas of the hull because combat conditions don’t really let you slowly adjust your reticle to land a hit directly next to the driver or rear of the turret) and while it’s a confirmed hit, the M60 just fires at me penning my turret and I go flying. On a bad day I’ve had M60s eat up to 6 shell hits at worse and 3 at best, checking the aftermission reports just show even AP rounds just straight up don’t even penetrate the front hull or turret as the shell just stops dead.

(I’m not saying the T80 needs a buff since it’s serviceable but I just want to know what I’m doing wrong since this is the kind of stuff I expect to experience when fighting a M1 and it usually is the case but not with a M60)

[Sling Blade]

Use the PACT Increased Lethality mod. It buffs all the weak ass Soviet/East German tanks. Options to upgrade T-72s to the T-72B/B3 variant, T-80U, T-62M, T-55AM, etc.

[Eagletanker]

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

I am aware that the T80 in game is meant to be the Russian counterpart to the M1 and during my early dozen of hours it indeed extremely powerful when I was doing all of the red instant missions.

But when I played campaign as the T80 it felt like M60s were penning me left and right even as I played into its strengths (hull down, front towards enemy,etc). Even what appears to be slight glancing blows to the side at odd angles is enough to cook off the auto loader, shots to the turret is usually enough to penetrate if not disable the barrel/cannon.

I've always reviewed the end of mission X ray cannon hits and sometimes the front armour stops a round most of the time but it just goes straight through. Same can’t be said for hits to the turret and sides even at low angles. A common case for me is to lase a M60, we both lock into each other and I get the first shot off because of my rangefinder (I usually aim for center of mass either on the turret or in the front areas of the hull because combat conditions don’t really let you slowly adjust your reticle to land a hit directly next to the driver or rear of the turret) and while it’s a confirmed hit, the M60 just fires at me penning my turret and I go flying. On a bad day I’ve had M60s eat up to 6 shell hits at worse and 3 at best, checking the aftermission reports just show even AP rounds just straight up don’t even penetrate the front hull or turret as the shell just stops dead.

(I’m not saying the T80 needs a buff since it’s serviceable but I just want to know what I’m doing wrong since this is the kind of stuff I expect to experience when fighting a M1 and it usually is the case but not with a M60)

This is because US tanks are using newer ammo in the campaign, which can pen T-64, T-72, and T-80 frontally from pretty far away, even more so when aiming at the turret or the drivers position. Soviet armor needs to get in close, and while smoke used to be the way to do this, in 1895 your going to have to use the terrain and a bit of luck.

Also, as others have said, aim for the hull on the M60, namely the lower right as that's where spare ammo is for the hull rack. Sometimes HEAT is also better than Sabot, as the M60 doesn't have composite armor and can't resist HEAT as a result.

[NvMe 令]

Originally posted by Eagletanker:

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

I am aware that the T80 in game is meant to be the Russian counterpart to the M1 and during my early dozen of hours it indeed extremely powerful when I was doing all of the red instant missions.

But when I played campaign as the T80 it felt like M60s were penning me left and right even as I played into its strengths (hull down, front towards enemy,etc). Even what appears to be slight glancing blows to the side at odd angles is enough to cook off the auto loader, shots to the turret is usually enough to penetrate if not disable the barrel/cannon.

I've always reviewed the end of mission X ray cannon hits and sometimes the front armour stops a round most of the time but it just goes straight through. Same can’t be said for hits to the turret and sides even at low angles. A common case for me is to lase a M60, we both lock into each other and I get the first shot off because of my rangefinder (I usually aim for center of mass either on the turret or in the front areas of the hull because combat conditions don’t really let you slowly adjust your reticle to land a hit directly next to the driver or rear of the turret) and while it’s a confirmed hit, the M60 just fires at me penning my turret and I go flying. On a bad day I’ve had M60s eat up to 6 shell hits at worse and 3 at best, checking the aftermission reports just show even AP rounds just straight up don’t even penetrate the front hull or turret as the shell just stops dead.

(I’m not saying the T80 needs a buff since it’s serviceable but I just want to know what I’m doing wrong since this is the kind of stuff I expect to experience when fighting a M1 and it usually is the case but not with a M60)

This is because US tanks are using newer ammo in the campaign, which can pen T-64, T-72, and T-80 frontally from pretty far away, even more so when aiming at the turret or the drivers position. Soviet armor needs to get in close, and while smoke used to be the way to do this, in 1895 your going to have to use the terrain and a bit of luck.

Also, as others have said, aim for the hull on the M60, namely the lower right as that's where spare ammo is for the hull rack. Sometimes HEAT is also better than Sabot, as the M60 doesn't have composite armor and can't resist HEAT as a result.

I actually took a proper look at what the US tanks were using and damm you right, no wonder they were going through everything like cheese

[Memento Mori]

Pact ammo can pen M-60s through the hull easily, and newer Pact ammo can pen Abrams' turret cheeks at close ranges. You just gotta hit a good shot, you might hit the tracks, but it could seem like a hull hit to you, no wonder an M-60 can eat several of those then. T-80s can stop NATO ammo, I have seen it happen occasionally. In the AAR, you can check both your and your opponents ammo, so that could explain a pen or a non-pen. Just play tactically, don't rush, aim carefully, or not even playing as an Abrams can help you.

[Казак]

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

I know all Russian tanks have a tendency to explode, have paper armour and make the turret go into the atmosphere,etc but recently after playing a while i noticed that even M60s are extremely dangerous, if not outright penetrating minor glancing blows would disable the weapon one way or another.

Ive heard a lot about how Russian tanks have very good hull down angles but i find myself in a lot of situations where the main gun wont fire because its depressed too low and when i expose myself a little bit i instantly get penned by a M60 and my commander goes into space. How do you shoot at tanks that are in flat uneven surfaces with lots of odd angles? Almost all of my shots just hit the ground short.

On a unrelated note, the amount of dust and sand kicked up during fighting can get intense and it basically acts like a smokescreen more often for the enemy which they can fire perfectly fine while the laser rangefinder dosent seem to work as well when trying to lase something covered in dust. Waiting for the dust to settle is not an option since enemy armour get to fire as if it isnt there at all.

That's a bit of a sterotype, not really accurate, but that being said the game is lacking a few things for PACT vehicles, namely ERA and the T-80BV, which would make it arguably the best armored tank. However the developers aren't looking to add it currently because the system to support ERA just isn't there right now IIRC.

Despite the Soviets lacking their best ammo, all 125mm tanks can definitely pen Abrams at closer ranges, and T-80 turret armor can absolutely bounce M60 and Abrams rounds. Hull armor is another story but all tanks here generally have pretty weak hull armor.

[CEO of The Internet]

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

But when I played campaign

Playing campaign as pact is an absolutely miserable experience. Attack missions force you to drive your T-80 into a wall of bradleys on an empty field, while following a specific route. You do the same in NATO campaign, but the Abrams being OP and bmp2s not noticing you immediately from 1,5km away makes it less terrible. Also I think the number of tanks per mission is the same for each faction, which does not seem very fair (or accurate)

[Казак]

Originally posted by CEO of The Internet:

Originally posted by NvMe 令:

But when I played campaign

Playing campaign as pact is an absolutely miserable experience. Attack missions force you to drive your T-80 into a wall of bradleys on an empty field, while following a specific route. You do the same in NATO campaign, but the Abrams being OP and bmp2s not noticing you immediately from 1,5km away makes it less terrible. Also I think the number of tanks per mission is the same for each faction, which does not seem very fair (or accurate)

Half the problem is the gun smoke, which AI seeks able to peek thru. Maybe it’s simulating M1s having thermals but even early M60s are able to do it.

I think in campaign the M60 gets the latest 105mm APFSDS round, which isn’t accurate or the same in scenarios. Irl those were only given out to abrams.

[Andy Mil]

Am afraid T80 are slightly stronger than T72. It has improve armor and turret and got experiment weird tech HEAT resistance armor in them but like every russia tank is that lower front armor always never protected
Tho in this game if you on high ground and able to aim down to M60 or M1 they will blouce off your frontal top regard of you are T72 or T80 or not
giving back the King Tiger vibes

get flank? every tank never stand a chance even Bardly will blow you up with APDS auto cannon
the main selling of T series always been ERA beside improvement of other stuff but i guess we aint see any of that here