How do the T-64A and T-80B compare to the T-72M/T-72M1?

[dfebruary]

The T-64A and T-80B are going to be added with the soviets so i would like to know how they compare to the best East German tanks

I know that their armor should be comparable or slightly better than on the T-72M1, i know that the T-64A has no laser rangefinder and it's optics are similar to the optics on the M60A1 RISE, while the T-80B from what i've heard should have an FCS better than on the M1 abrams and M1IP?

The T-80B should also have the ability to launch ATGMs

I also heard that the T-80B has twice as fast reverse speed than the T-72

I was also told that the soviets should have access to more modern APFSDS than the German T-72s but IDK how much stronger they are

[Dooby]

That just about covers it, the T80B will reverse at around 10km/h and the newer ammo will prevent abrooms players from sitting in the open without fear, even from the front. The M1IP will fare better but the basic M1 will be in serious danger.

[dfebruary]

Originally posted by Dooby:

That just about covers it, the T80B will reverse at around 10km/h and the newer ammo will prevent abrooms players from sitting in the open without fear, even from the front. The M1IP will fare better but the basic M1 will be in serious danger.

What is the pen on the T-80B ATGM? I've heard that it was given them mainly to outrange/counter M901/swingfire/Jaguar ATGM carriers, but IDK if it is true, is it also enough to engage NATO 3rd gen MBTs?

[Soldner42]

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Originally posted by Dooby:

That just about covers it, the T80B will reverse at around 10km/h and the newer ammo will prevent abrooms players from sitting in the open without fear, even from the front. The M1IP will fare better but the basic M1 will be in serious danger.

What is the pen on the T-80B ATGM? I've heard that it was given them mainly to outrange/counter M901/swingfire/Jaguar ATGM carriers, but IDK if it is true, is it also enough to engage NATO 3rd gen MBTs?

As much as i know , and god help me for not spitting fake News, the T80B used/uses the 9K112M Kobra SACLOS HEAT ATGM (produced 1979-1984) the same Rocket that also T64Bs and T64BVs ect. use(d).

In 1985 on the 9K120 Svir Tandem Hollow Charge ATGM appeared for the T72B and all later Variants and all T90 Tanks.
As the 9K120 SVIR was made for the Autoloading System of the T72s/T90s, the T64s and T80s couldnt used it. Even tho both the 9K120 Svir and the 9K119 Refleks can be used in all 2A45 / 2A46 / 2A46M Guns. But the Autoloading Systems arent able to interchange Ammo between the T72/T90 and T64/T80 Variants.
As much as i know the SVIR and REFLEKS are the same ATGM, just slightly changed to fit either the T72/T90 Autoloader or the T64/T80 Autoloader.

After that the T64 and T80 tanks got access to the 9M128 AGONA SACLOS TANDEM ATGM (entered Service in 1988).

And after that, the T64 and T80 tanks got access to the and 9K119 Refleks Tandem Hollow Charge ATGM (entered Service in 1992).



The Kobra HEAT ATGM has a Range of around 4Km.
It can Pen around 600mm of RHA Steel.

The SVIR Tandem ATGM has a Range of around 4Km
The Refleks Tandem ATGM has a Range of around 5Km
Both can Pen around 700-900mm of RHA Steel.

The Agona Tandem ATGM has a Range of around 4Km.
It could Pen around 600-700mm of RHA Steel.

[Dooby]

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Originally posted by Dooby:

That just about covers it, the T80B will reverse at around 10km/h and the newer ammo will prevent abrooms players from sitting in the open without fear, even from the front. The M1IP will fare better but the basic M1 will be in serious danger.

What is the pen on the T-80B ATGM? I've heard that it was given them mainly to outrange/counter M901/swingfire/Jaguar ATGM carriers, but IDK if it is true, is it also enough to engage NATO 3rd gen MBTs?

The kobra will be about as dangerous as the konkurs is in game, it has high penetration but not enough for the frontal composites of both abrams variants. It will however, go through any other part of the Abrams with extreme violence.

[E(0)=MC^2]

Well, the main point for T-80B is newer ammo, 3BM29/3BM32 should be able to pen M1 with no difficulties.

[Zero]

Game is set at 1985 or not? T-80BV should be the latest, even thought I would expect earlier versions first. It is more likely they will add the B variant.
Does anyone know have a source for the FCS of the B or BV variant? Does it have automatic/dynamic lead and ranging like the M1 and Leopard 2. I do not mean anything where you have adjust elevation and lead by yourself, because that would really suck. Hitting you enemy faster and with the first shot is and that with a simply push of a button is quite the feat.

ATGMs are great for helicopter, but not against tanks in typical battle ranges.

Because of SB I know that later russian tanks have great FCS with autotrack like the T72b3, but that one is a far far newer model.

[dfebruary]

Originally posted by Zero:

Game is set at 1985 or not? T-80BV should be the latest, even thought I would expect earlier versions first. It is more likely they will add the B variant.
Does anyone know have a source for the FCS of the B or BV variant? Does it have automatic/dynamic lead and ranging like the M1 and Leopard 2. I do not mean anything where you have adjust elevation and lead by yourself, because that would really suck. Hitting you enemy faster and with the first shot is and that with a simply push of a button is quite the feat.

ATGMs are great for helicopter, but not against tanks in typical battle ranges.

Because of SB I know that later russian tanks have great FCS with autotrack like the T72b3, but that one is a far far newer model.

Someone on discord found a photo of T-80BV in East Germany in 1985 so they might end up in the game, but it's not guaranteed

I don't know much about the specifics of the T-80B FCS but the lead developer on discord said that it's better than on the M1IP, apparently it's 2-axis stabilized, has delta-D and manual backup marks on the glass

Also the T-64B could also be added to the game if i am not mistaken

[dfebruary]

Originally posted by E(0)=MC^2:

Well, the main point for T-80B is newer ammo, 3BM29/3BM32 should be able to pen M1 with no difficulties.

It should be able to pen the M1 with no difficulties, but will it consistently pen the Leopard 2 and M1IP?

[Zero]

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Originally posted by Zero:

Game is set at 1985 or not? T-80BV should be the latest, even thought I would expect earlier versions first. It is more likely they will add the B variant.
Does anyone know have a source for the FCS of the B or BV variant? Does it have automatic/dynamic lead and ranging like the M1 and Leopard 2. I do not mean anything where you have adjust elevation and lead by yourself, because that would really suck. Hitting you enemy faster and with the first shot is and that with a simply push of a button is quite the feat.

ATGMs are great for helicopter, but not against tanks in typical battle ranges.

Because of SB I know that later russian tanks have great FCS with autotrack like the T72b3, but that one is a far far newer model.

Someone on discord found a photo of T-80BV in East Germany in 1985 so they might end up in the game, but it's not guaranteed

I don't know much about the specifics of the T-80B FCS but the lead developer on discord said that it's better than on the M1IP, apparently it's 2-axis stabilized, has delta-D and manual backup marks on the glass

Also the T-64B could also be added to the game if i am not mistaken

There is an inofficial of more or less confirmed/planned vehicles: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10IVrf2SCZs2eHhbpNeHisIyK4sT2ooPIJkvoxK9z0L4/edit#gid=2144848987
According to that, the T80B and T64A 1981 are in development. But this is by no means a given.


Appears the T80-B has the same FCS as the T64-B: the 1A33 FCS. Would be cool if someone has some references, because I only find information of later T80U FCS, which is a different one.


Today's (West-) Germany got their hands on a T64 and T80 quite early, but it is even classified from where they got them, because they are (unlike the T72 export variants) not shared among soviet members. I think T64 was and is still produced in Ukraine, though. But I really do not know what is publicly known or not. Respect to the Devs, especially because they said, that they do not want to use leaked but still classified source material.

[dfebruary]

Originally posted by Zero:

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Someone on discord found a photo of T-80BV in East Germany in 1985 so they might end up in the game, but it's not guaranteed

I don't know much about the specifics of the T-80B FCS but the lead developer on discord said that it's better than on the M1IP, apparently it's 2-axis stabilized, has delta-D and manual backup marks on the glass

Also the T-64B could also be added to the game if i am not mistaken

There is an inofficial of more or less confirmed/planned vehicles: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10IVrf2SCZs2eHhbpNeHisIyK4sT2ooPIJkvoxK9z0L4/edit#gid=2144848987
According to that, the T80B and T64A 1981 are in development. But this is by no means a given.


Appears the T80-B has the same FCS as the T64-B: the 1A33 FCS. Would be cool if someone has some references, because I only find information of later T80U FCS, which is a different one.


Today's (West-) Germany got their hands on a T64 and T80 quite early, but it is even classified from where they got them, because they are (unlike the T72 export variants) not shared among soviet members. I think T64 was and is still produced in Ukraine, though. But I really do not know what is publicly known or not. Respect to the Devs, especially because they said, that they do not want to use leaked but still classified source material.

The T-64 is not still being produced in Ukraine, Ukraine only produced the T-84 and the T-80UD (though i think the T-80UD production line stopped in the 2000s and was kept running before that essentially just because of a Pakistani export order)

[Zero]

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Originally posted by Zero:

There is an inofficial of more or less confirmed/planned vehicles: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10IVrf2SCZs2eHhbpNeHisIyK4sT2ooPIJkvoxK9z0L4/edit#gid=2144848987
According to that, the T80B and T64A 1981 are in development. But this is by no means a given.


Appears the T80-B has the same FCS as the T64-B: the 1A33 FCS. Would be cool if someone has some references, because I only find information of later T80U FCS, which is a different one.


Today's (West-) Germany got their hands on a T64 and T80 quite early, but it is even classified from where they got them, because they are (unlike the T72 export variants) not shared among soviet members. I think T64 was and is still produced in Ukraine, though. But I really do not know what is publicly known or not. Respect to the Devs, especially because they said, that they do not want to use leaked but still classified source material.

The T-64 is not still being produced in Ukraine, Ukraine only produced the T-84 and the T-80UD (though i think the T-80UD production line stopped in the 2000s and was kept running before that essentially just because of a Pakistani export order)

Yeah, I really don't much about it. Were they not exclusively produced in Ukraine (as part of the former Soviet Union)? You still see so many in a certain present conflict.

[dfebruary]

Originally posted by Zero:

Originally posted by dfebruary:

The T-64 is not still being produced in Ukraine, Ukraine only produced the T-84 and the T-80UD (though i think the T-80UD production line stopped in the 2000s and was kept running before that essentially just because of a Pakistani export order)

Yeah, I really don't much about it. Were they not exclusively produced in Ukraine (as part of the former Soviet Union)? You still see so many in a certain present conflict.

The T-64 was produced only in the Ukrainian SSR but i am not aware of any production in post soviet Ukraine

[E(0)=MC^2]

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Originally posted by E(0)=MC^2:

Well, the main point for T-80B is newer ammo, 3BM29/3BM32 should be able to pen M1 with no difficulties.

It should be able to pen the M1 with no difficulties, but will it consistently pen the Leopard 2 and M1IP?

In case of M1IP it should have no issues with it's hull at least, as for turret, it will be depend on impact angle. As for Leopard 2, I guess, it will be fitted with B-tech armor, whic means it's vulerable even to 3BM22 in hull and for 3BM32 in turret.

[dfebruary]

Originally posted by E(0)=MC^2:

Originally posted by dfebruary:

It should be able to pen the M1 with no difficulties, but will it consistently pen the Leopard 2 and M1IP?

In case of M1IP it should have no issues with it's hull at least, as for turret, it will be depend on impact angle. As for Leopard 2, I guess, it will be fitted with B-tech armor, whic means it's vulerable even to 3BM22 in hull and for 3BM32 in turret.

I am not sure if the 3BM32 will appear in the game, and even if it will it would be in a limited number like M833

[E(0)=MC^2]

Originally posted by dfebruary:

Originally posted by E(0)=MC^2:

In case of M1IP it should have no issues with it's hull at least, as for turret, it will be depend on impact angle. As for Leopard 2, I guess, it will be fitted with B-tech armor, whic means it's vulerable even to 3BM22 in hull and for 3BM32 in turret.

I am not sure if the 3BM32 will appear in the game, and even if it will it would be in a limited number like M833

Well, we have M833 in 100% of instant action missions for M60 and M1, then I guess it should be the same for Soviets, because otherwise it's pointless to play them xD I mean, for now we literally don't have any kind of "balance" between factions in terms of tanks, if Soviets won't change it, than it will remain "M1 enjoyer" tank simulator